I have questions about a TB template with Simple and Sinister

[Tirofijo]

I know this has been discussed, but I didn't see exactly what I was looking for.

Life has made it difficult for me to get to the squat rack and do the traditional lifts. I've got two little ones at home, so lately I've just been able to do a quick kettlebell workout in the living room after they are asleep or running with a stroller on the weekends.

I've really come to enjoy Pavel's Simple & Sinister (S&S) program. I'll soon be ready to move from the 24kg bell to the 32kg bell. I'm not sure how long it will take to hit the time/rep requirements to reach the "Simple" standard. (100 one arm swings in 5 minutes and 10 TGUs in 5 minutes with the 32kg/70lb bell.)

But that "Simple" standard is now a goal of mine.

And yet I miss doing the big lifts and know I need to be doing them. S&S is great, but it is what it is - which is a minimalist program. So i'll be making the time for the big lifts using a TB template.

At risk of violating the "if everything is a priority, then nothing is" axiom, I do want to place a decent emphasis on improving my S&S and not just using it as a 'finisher' or maintenance.

My thought was Fighter template, with anything outside of that being a S&S workout or a run with the stroller (and the very occasional BJJ class.) (So no TB conditioning workouts.)


Anyone else try this? Or did anyone use a different TB template? How did it go?

I'm wondering how many S&S workouts a week I can get away with.

[Ten8]

I know this has been discussed, but I didn't see exactly what I was looking for.

Life has made it difficult for me to get to the squat rack and do the traditional lifts. I've got two little ones at home, so lately I've just been able to do a quick kettlebell workout in the living room after they are asleep or running with a stroller on the weekends.

I've really come to enjoy Pavel's Simple & Sinister (S&S) program. I'll soon be ready to move from the 24kg bell to the 32kg bell. I'm not sure how long it will take to hit the time/rep requirements to reach the "Simple" standard. (100 one arm swings in 5 minutes and 10 TGUs in 5 minutes with the 32kg/70lb bell.)

But that "Simple" standard is now a goal of mine.

And yet I miss doing the big lifts and know I need to be doing them. S&S is great, but it is what it is - which is a minimalist program. So i'll be making the time for the big lifts using a TB template.

At risk of violating the "if everything is a priority, then nothing is" axiom, I do want to place a decent emphasis on improving my S&S and not just using it as a 'finisher' or maintenance.

My thought was Fighter template, with anything outside of that being a S&S workout or a run with the stroller (and the very occasional BJJ class.) (So no TB conditioning workouts.)


Anyone else try this? Or did anyone use a different TB template? How did it go?

I'm wondering how many S&S workouts a week I can get away with.

Pavel recommends a certain # of SS days if you're pairing it with a strength program. I don't know the number off the top of my head but I believe it's 2-3 SS sessions if you're going to combine it.

Individual work capacity varies, but personally I don't think you'll have any issues using Fighter with a reasonable cluster along with 5 days of SS if you're not doing much else in terms of training.

Have you tried asking on the SF forum?

[Maxrip13]

Have you considered just switching focus for a while until you can set up some way to hit the barbells lifts at home? Maybe it's time to invest in a squat rack and some weights, that allow you to train around the little ones. If you already have this you just need to use a smaller cluster.

I had great success using S&S paired with fighter pullup program for my strength training. I paired this with my basebuilding and ran between 3-5 days a week. My barbell lifts didn't suffer much at all over that 5-6 week period.

Another option is to do S&S 4 days a week and pair it with a minimilist cluster for zulu. This would work really well with a home gym set up, as you could easily do a couple sets of deadlifts, squats or benchpress after you do the S&S work.

I can't see any issues with fighter and S&S paired also. Just listen to your body and treat S&S as practice and you would have no issues.

[Tirofijo]

Thanks Maxrip.

I actually already have a home gym in the garage, complete with squat rack. But even finding time to get there is difficult. But as they say, if it's important enough you'll find a way. Time to see if the baby monitor will get a signal in the garage.

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RE: Zulu

I had originally thought Fighter since it's twice a week, thus leaving plenty of training time for S&S. But now that you mention it, a minimalist Zulu cluster with no accessory lifts followed by S&S is likely doable. Certainly I could handle that as long as I stay with the 24kg. Jumping to the 32kg might be another story (see below.)

So that brings up the cluster choice and the dreaded subject of incorporating DLs. It's especially tricky as I would be following the main lifts with 100 one-arm swings and then 10 TGUs, both of which have hinge movements and overlap with DLs.

(A) Bench/Squats
(B) OHP/DL

Maybe limit the DLs to one working set? DLs once a week and something else (pullups?) the second B day of the week?




----------------------------------
I just looked at the Fighter Pullup program. http://www.strongfirst.com/the-fighter- ... revisited/ in case others are interested

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The jump from 24kg to 32kg for S&S will be big. I'll have to ease into it, with one set of swings with the 24kg followed by a set of 32kg and then back to 24kg for the rest of the sets. I don't even know if I can do a TGU with the 32kg bell (though the 24kg seemed really heavy a few weeks ago for TGUs and now it's not a problem. )

I can see an argument for dropping the barbell lifting and just focusing on S&S (along with Fighter Pullup) until I get accustomed to the 32kg. (I've just ordered the 32 bell - and there's a good chance that the international shipper I use will reject it - adding another wrinkle to my plan.) We shall see, but in the meantime I'll be doing a TB template and will cross that bridge when I come to it.

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I'm all ears if anyone has comments/critiques/random thoughts.

Thanks.

[DocOctagon]

Thanks Maxrip.

I actually already have a home gym in the garage, complete with squat rack. But even finding time to get there is difficult. But as they say, if it's important enough you'll find a way. Time to see if the baby monitor will get a signal in the garage.

------------------------

RE: Zulu

I had originally thought Fighter since it's twice a week, thus leaving plenty of training time for S&S. But now that you mention it, a minimalist Zulu cluster with no accessory lifts followed by S&S is likely doable. Certainly I could handle that as long as I stay with the 24kg. Jumping to the 32kg might be another story (see below.)

So that brings up the cluster choice and the dreaded subject of incorporating DLs. It's especially tricky as I would be following the main lifts with 100 one-arm swings and then 10 TGUs, both of which have hinge movements and overlap with DLs.

(A) Bench/Squats
(B) OHP/DL

Maybe limit the DLs to one working set? DLs once a week and something else (pullups?) the second B day of the week?




----------------------------------
I just looked at the Fighter Pullup program. http://www.strongfirst.com/the-fighter- ... revisited/ in case others are interested

------------

The jump from 24kg to 32kg for S&S will be big. I'll have to ease into it, with one set of swings with the 24kg followed by a set of 32kg and then back to 24kg for the rest of the sets. I don't even know if I can do a TGU with the 32kg bell (though the 24kg seemed really heavy a few weeks ago for TGUs and now it's not a problem. )

I can see an argument for dropping the barbell lifting and just focusing on S&S (along with Fighter Pullup) until I get accustomed to the 32kg. (I've just ordered the 32 bell - and there's a good chance that the international shipper I use will reject it - adding another wrinkle to my plan.) We shall see, but in the meantime I'll be doing a TB template and will cross that bridge when I come to it.

--------------

I'm all ears if anyone has comments/critiques/random thoughts.

Thanks.

I don't think you'll see any issues at all combining a minimalist Fighter with it. I mean really minimalist, just squat and bench, OHP/FSQ, or some variant thereof. Regarding DLs, KB swings hit the posterior really well but neglect some of the pushing, leg, pectorals etc. Fighter would fill in the gaps perfectly.

If you want to go the Zulu route, I'd go even more minimalist. Again, a BP/SQ or OHP/FSQ cluster/variant:

Day 1: SQ
Day 2: BP

Day 4: SQ
Day 5: BP

One lift plus S&S seems like a very balanced approach that gives you the ability to prioritize S&S as per your goals. Again, since you do want to prioritize S&S I would leave out the deadlifts. BUT, if you really want to keep the DLs going, you could swap out the squats for DLs instead.

[Onebunk]

I finally reached Simple while following this prep program for the tactical strength challenge. http://www.strongfirst.com/tactical-str ... -the-plan/
Give it a look, I was able to add some longer cardio days, but I didn't plan on actually competing in the TSC, but my deadlift went up steadily.

[grouchyjarhead]

I agree with either Fighter or Zulu, as minimalist as you can. Bench and squat would be my choices, and only do the minimum sets so you're still fresh for your kettlebell work.

[B71]

I am very interested in this thread, since my situation is comparable. I've got 1-year-old twins, my easy access to a full gym is about to end (we're posted across the country and leaving in 2 weeks) and my new commute is going to eat the time I used to use to go to the gym. I've been trying to figure out if I can patch together a TB template using calisthenics or KBs (which I'd have to go buy).

I know this has been discussed, but I didn't see exactly what I was looking for.

Life has made it difficult for me to get to the squat rack and do the traditional lifts. I've got two little ones at home, so lately I've just been able to do a quick kettlebell workout in the living room after they are asleep or running with a stroller on the weekends.

I've really come to enjoy Pavel's Simple & Sinister (S&S) program. ...

I just bought Pavel's "Naked Warrior" and found it rather less structured than I'd anticipated. I was hoping to plug it into a TB template for max strength days, but maybe I'll look at S&S instead.

[GlassCityMedic]

If you invest in a couple of size KB's you would be able to do a lot of the HIC workouts in TB II as well (depending on your conditioning goals).

[J-Madd]

I am very interested in this thread, since my situation is comparable. I've got 1-year-old twins, my easy access to a full gym is about to end (we're posted across the country and leaving in 2 weeks) and my new commute is going to eat the time I used to use to go to the gym. I've been trying to figure out if I can patch together a TB template using calisthenics or KBs (which I'd have to go buy).

I know this has been discussed, but I didn't see exactly what I was looking for.

Life has made it difficult for me to get to the squat rack and do the traditional lifts. I've got two little ones at home, so lately I've just been able to do a quick kettlebell workout in the living room after they are asleep or running with a stroller on the weekends.

I've really come to enjoy Pavel's Simple & Sinister (S&S) program. ...

I just bought Pavel's "Naked Warrior" and found it rather less structured than I'd anticipated. I was hoping to plug it into a TB template for max strength days, but maybe I'll look at S&S instead.

I think the best approach to bodyweight only is to follow K. Black's suggestions to that end TB 3rd., i.e., pick bodyweight exercises for full coverage, and follows the basic TB templates using % of your max reps for each movement until you are ready to add weight. When going BW only, I would definitely use Operator. Because I'm training BJJ so much (x4-5 days/week), lately I've been sticking to what basically amounts to a body-weight (+weight vest) version of OP I/A. I'm doing weighted rings dips, weighted pull-ups, and heavy swings (one set of 50 continuous reps). That is keeping my strength box checked, while I need to save a lot of gas for rolling. I'd like to get some more squatting in there, but I need to keep things very abbreviate and recovery friendly. I occasionally sprinkle in a few heavy KB goblet squats or pistols (BW only).