E after Basebuilding

[spemma]

floating around the threads in this forum i've seen some iteration of the following said with regards to E training after basebuilding:

"after basebuilding, drop the heartrate restrictions on E and do things like fartleks, hill running, tempo runs, etc."

can someone help me understand that better? i didn't catch that in the book, but i may have overlooked it. i see it mentioned with enough frequency here that it appears self evident.

for example, Fast 5 counts as a HIC per the book, but it sounds like it can also count as an E? i thought the purpose of E was to be long duration, low(er) intensity. but it sounds like the suggestions in continuation, to some degree, are to keep duration up but also increase intensity?

thanks in advance for your help!

[Barkadion]

I try to keep it simple in my head: - Ditch the HR monitor and proceed with the tempo that is reasonable for you personally.

Basically, you get E workouts with faster pace.

Also, I don't think that anything wrong with keeping LSS pace after BB if you like it, imho.

[mikhou]

I try to keep it simple in my head: - Ditch the HR monitor and proceed with the tempo that is reasonable for you personally.

Basically, you get E workouts with faster pace.

Also, I don't think that anything wrong with keeping LSS pace after BB if you like it, imho.

Agreed. Basically the point is that you don't need to monitor your heart rate and tempo so closely after BB. In fact, you probably want to keep doing some sort of E work but at a faster pace based more on feel. For example, every 2 weeks, I do a Fun Run that is about an hour long. If I'm feeling good, I really push the tempo. If not, then I'll just run comfortably. But it's good after BB to get your body accustomed to running uncomfortably hard for an extended period of time. That's the purpose of a tempo run.

mikhou

[spemma]

thanks guys!

and for another dumb question - why do we want to do that?

i may be too literal on this and read too many articles linked in reddit, but i'm stuck on the following:

"A look at training logs of runners of different abilities shows that nearly all elites follow the “80/20 Rule,” but most other runners don’t—a discrepancy that is familiar to coaches who work with both elite and recreational runners. “You would assume that maybe most people wouldn’t train hard enough,” says Pete Rae, who coaches post-collegiate runners and hosts running camps for recreational runners at ZAP Fitness in Blowing Rock, North Carolina. “But what I find with the overwhelming majority of adults who come to our camps is that they tend to do their daily runs too hard.”

Research confirms this observation. According to a study by Muriel Gilman at Arizona State University, the typical adult competitive runner does only 46 percent of his or her training at low intensity and another 46 percent at moderate intensity. Chances are you, too, are caught in the “moderate-intensity rut” without realizing it. If so, then the surest way for you to race faster is to train slower."

http://www.runnersworld.com/rt-web-excl ... sity-ratio

i'm always hesitant to look at the "elites" with regards to training. i know in the bodybuilding community people like copying the routines of the pro's, without realizing that it took years and years of dedicated work (and drugs) to do the volume that the pro's are doing. but the article does address the casual trainee, so that did pique my interest.

[spemma]

i see the answer here on pg. 3:

http://tacticalbarbell.com/forum/viewto ... 1&start=10

i'm still struggling a bit on how to connect the dots.

[spemma]

i see the answer here on pg. 3:

http://tacticalbarbell.com/forum/viewto ... 1&start=10

i'm still struggling a bit on how to connect the dots.

[spemma]

i see the answer here on pg. 3:

http://tacticalbarbell.com/forum/viewto ... 1&start=10

i'm still struggling a bit on how to connect the dots.

if E = best way to build cardiac hypertrophy and consequently build endurance, and the best way to do so is via low intensity, longer duration, however you choose to measure that, then why would we want to change that dynamic for E?

it seems like we're turning E into E/HIC, and it sounds like that's okay, but i don't get why....

[K.B.]

i see the answer here on pg. 3:

http://tacticalbarbell.com/forum/viewto ... 1&start=10

i'm still struggling a bit on how to connect the dots.

if E = best way to build cardiac hypertrophy and consequently build endurance

Cardiac hypertrophy is one leg of the table. There's more to conditioning (+ endurance) than simply growing the left ventricle.

[K.B.]

floating around the threads in this forum i've seen some iteration of the following said with regards to E training after basebuilding:

"after basebuilding, drop the heartrate restrictions on E and do things like fartleks, hill running, tempo runs, etc."

can someone help me understand that better? i didn't catch that in the book, but i may have overlooked it. i see it mentioned with enough frequency here that it appears self evident.

for example, Fast 5 counts as a HIC per the book, but it sounds like it can also count as an E? i thought the purpose of E was to be long duration, low(er) intensity. but it sounds like the suggestions in continuation, to some degree, are to keep duration up but also increase intensity?

thanks in advance for your help!

You're putting too much emphasis on heart rate restricted E and ventricular hypertrophy - again, just one leg of the table.
There's more to endurance than ventricular hypertrophy, and there's more to conditioning than endurance. Going faster allows you to work on things other than ventricular hypertrophy - like lactate threshold tolerance,along with other adaptations required for speed. Another is the mental; certain tactical athletes have to experience working at a level best described as 'comfortably uncomfortable' for extended periods of time.

The sources you're citing are coming from the perspective of one dimensional specialists; long distance runners. Tactical athletes and runners can not train exactly the same way. Tac athletes have to factor in other physical requirements. Explosiveness. Speed. Strength. SE. Specificity is another one. Being able to blast through marathons doesn't automatically translate into being a rucking superstar. Training for these other things will have a spill-over effect into how we train the individual domain of aerobic capacity.

Tac athletes aside, even runners and racers generally have an element of speed work in their training. The ratio/volume/frequency differs depending on the event. There is no race training plan (that I know of) that has you keep all of your miles 30-150bpm leading up to the event - with no element of speed work whatsoever.

Green is a set of parameters designed to take into account varying objectives. There is nothing wrong with keeping the bulk of your Green sessions HR-Restricted if it fits your goals. Not everyone trains for the same goal. A trainee that prioritizes running is going to have a Green protocol that might look vastly different from that of a tactical athlete. The runner might do 80% LSS along with 20% tempo work - and it's all running, pounding the pavement. A tactical athlete might have a mix of rucking, running/Fun-Runs, and swimming. Try doing a Fun-Run within 130-150bpm. Again, there are things besides heart-hypertrophy that have to be developed for both endurance and overall conditioning.

On top of your role; i.e. runner, tactical athlete, recreational lifter - factor in your short term goals. You might be a tactical athlete that needs to turn into a runner for a certain period of time for a particular objective. Maybe you need to shore up a weakness. Training is fluid. There is no one-size-fits-all. Learn how to pivot and adapt as your short term objectives change.

[Aelian]

Green doesn't require you to run fast, Green allows for tempo & speed-work in your protocol. Green also allows you to run slower without staying under 150 beats per minute. That's it.

@Spema I get the impression you think "dropping heart rate restrictions" translates to "run super-fast for all your long distance runs from here on out". You do realize that 130-150bpm is an unnaturally slow pace for most? Most can go above that and still be comfortably within the "80" of 80/20. You can still run at a slower pace, without being in the 130-150 zone. On top of that you'll want to occasionally push the pace hard for longer distances or duration. That falls within the "20".