Hello,
Hope everyone is well. Just a quick question here. Has anyone ever combined Strength and Edurance into one session or Strength and Strength Endurance in the same session?
I really enjoy performing E sessions in the way that Chris Adams writes about in Building your engine for Firefighting. I am a career firefighter and I believe that after working a busy 24 the last thing you need is hard conditioning work taxing your body and dipping into your recovery after a long shift.
Has anyone structured a session in the following manner.
Warm Up
Strength(Lower Push,Upper Pull)
1. Front Squats TB Progression (Zulu)
2. Wtd Pull Ups TB progression (Zulu)
Endurance(Cyclical movement, Lower Push*,Upper Pull)
Repeat for 45min with Hr of 130-150BPM
1. 2-5min Cyclical movement
1b. Step Up x 8/8
1c. Trx Row x 10
1d. Plank 30s
1e. 2-5min Cyclical movement
1f. Rev Lunge 8/8
1g. Hand over Hand Rope Pull (x meters)
1h. Farmer Walk (x meters)
For your second day you could follow suit and focus on Upper Body Pushing movements and Lower Body hinges.
Strength and E in One Session
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BlackPyjamas
- Posts: 137
- Joined: Sat Sep 10, 2016 2:52 am
Re: Strength and E in One Session
It looks like you're describing SE rather than E. Correct me if I'm wrong, but essentially what you have in mind is something like this:
1. Max Strength + SE finisher
2. Max Strength + SE finisher
off
repeat (aka Zulu).
If so I would tread carefully. SE causes muscular fatigue and DOMs which usually interferes with the principle of "staying fresh" for MS training. After the first SE workout (Day 1) soreness and the effects of muscle failure carry over and impact your Day 2 MS work, and possibly even Day 4 and 5 depending on SE volume and intensity. IME It's best to keep one or the other to a minimum (per block) if you want to maximize results in either quality. I believe that's why TB structures blocks as MS vs SE-Only. Fighter Bangkok is an example of doing SE with MS, but keeping it to a minimum. For SE training to be truly effective you need to reach muscle failure and push beyond. For MS it's the opposite. If your SE isn't reaching the point of failure as described in TB2 then you're probably not going to get much improvement. Basically you're not getting a proper SE workout and that same half-measures SE workout might do just enough damage to effect your next MS session....both suffer.
Endurance is a different animal. I think MS and E are good together. The key imo is keeping intensity very low if you're going to mix it in with MS. LISS is perfect. Base on your proposed workout you might want to look at Triples, but keep the intensity as low as possible. Jump rope, running and maybe rowing or battle ropes, basically minimize the load bearing aspect and use more energy system focused movements.
1. Max Strength + SE finisher
2. Max Strength + SE finisher
off
repeat (aka Zulu).
If so I would tread carefully. SE causes muscular fatigue and DOMs which usually interferes with the principle of "staying fresh" for MS training. After the first SE workout (Day 1) soreness and the effects of muscle failure carry over and impact your Day 2 MS work, and possibly even Day 4 and 5 depending on SE volume and intensity. IME It's best to keep one or the other to a minimum (per block) if you want to maximize results in either quality. I believe that's why TB structures blocks as MS vs SE-Only. Fighter Bangkok is an example of doing SE with MS, but keeping it to a minimum. For SE training to be truly effective you need to reach muscle failure and push beyond. For MS it's the opposite. If your SE isn't reaching the point of failure as described in TB2 then you're probably not going to get much improvement. Basically you're not getting a proper SE workout and that same half-measures SE workout might do just enough damage to effect your next MS session....both suffer.
Endurance is a different animal. I think MS and E are good together. The key imo is keeping intensity very low if you're going to mix it in with MS. LISS is perfect. Base on your proposed workout you might want to look at Triples, but keep the intensity as low as possible. Jump rope, running and maybe rowing or battle ropes, basically minimize the load bearing aspect and use more energy system focused movements.
Re: Strength and E in One Session
You can always give it a go and see how things turn out, but I think it would be too much work 4 times a week.RescueStrong4205 wrote:Hello,
Hope everyone is well. Just a quick question here. Has anyone ever combined Strength and Edurance into one session or Strength and Strength Endurance in the same session?
I really enjoy performing E sessions in the way that Chris Adams writes about in Building your engine for Firefighting. I am a career firefighter and I believe that after working a busy 24 the last thing you need is hard conditioning work taxing your body and dipping into your recovery after a long shift.
Has anyone structured a session in the following manner.
Warm Up
Strength(Lower Push,Upper Pull)
1. Front Squats TB Progression (Zulu)
2. Wtd Pull Ups TB progression (Zulu)
Endurance(Cyclical movement, Lower Push*,Upper Pull)
Repeat for 45min with Hr of 130-150BPM
1. 2-5min Cyclical movement
1b. Step Up x 8/8
1c. Trx Row x 10
1d. Plank 30s
1e. 2-5min Cyclical movement
1f. Rev Lunge 8/8
1g. Hand over Hand Rope Pull (x meters)
1h. Farmer Walk (x meters)
For your second day you could follow suit and focus on Upper Body Pushing movements and Lower Body hinges.
Even though you fire fighters get to sleep on your night shift, Some of us actually have to work and this impacts our recovery haha.
It also looks a bit like you are trying to build"the perfect session" to cover SE,LSS,Aerobic capacity and core work. Are you trying to sub this in for LSS and/or SE?
I haven't done something exactly the same as what you are saying, but I do like to use an SE/LSS fun run on the track which is pretty close. I like to do the following:
5+ Pullups
8+ Dips
800m Run moderate pace
Repeat for rounds
x 30 min +
It is similar I just prefer to be outside and keep my exercise selection smaller.This lets me build up more volume,fatigue and get more rounds in. I find this more effective than multiple exercises and easier to get done as I only need a pullup/dip bar. I also don't focus on my heart rate and just grind my way through the session and recover as needed on the run.
I usually use OP/Zulu I/A and will take between 1-3 days off after depending on how I feel. I wouldn't do this more than once a week if I was doing heavy strength training at the time.
Long story short, 4x a week is probably too much but once a week might be a good start.
Re: Strength and E in One Session
To pile on to the excellent advice by Maxrip and Black PJs, I think we also need a bigger picture of your training.
What conditioning protocol are you on? What you're doing might be ok (with a few tweaks) if you're not following any sort of TB conditioning protocol on your non-strength days. The answer changes if you're also doing Black or Green.
What are your overall training goals, why do you train?
How would you rank fitness domains by priority for your goals? Max strength, E, SE, HIC
How do your fitness domains measure right now, i.e. which are you strongest in and which needs the most improvement?
Is there a reason you can't block train TB style (focus on one or two domains each block, change the focus up every few blocks). I agree with Maxrip, it looks like you might be trying to squeeze everything into one "ultimate workout" which rarely works, usually the end result is mediocrity in all domains. To add to this, some domains pair well together, some don't. SE and MS don't play well together.
What conditioning protocol are you on? What you're doing might be ok (with a few tweaks) if you're not following any sort of TB conditioning protocol on your non-strength days. The answer changes if you're also doing Black or Green.
What are your overall training goals, why do you train?
How would you rank fitness domains by priority for your goals? Max strength, E, SE, HIC
How do your fitness domains measure right now, i.e. which are you strongest in and which needs the most improvement?
Is there a reason you can't block train TB style (focus on one or two domains each block, change the focus up every few blocks). I agree with Maxrip, it looks like you might be trying to squeeze everything into one "ultimate workout" which rarely works, usually the end result is mediocrity in all domains. To add to this, some domains pair well together, some don't. SE and MS don't play well together.
Re: Strength and E in One Session
My first question would be what is the purpose of this part; E, SE, GPP? What domain are you trying to improve?RescueStrong4205 wrote: Endurance(Cyclical movement, Lower Push*,Upper Pull)
Repeat for 45min with Hr of 130-150BPM
1. 2-5min Cyclical movement
1b. Step Up x 8/8
1c. Trx Row x 10
1d. Plank 30s
1e. 2-5min Cyclical movement
1f. Rev Lunge 8/8
1g. Hand over Hand Rope Pull (x meters)
1h. Farmer Walk (x meters)
For your second day you could follow suit and focus on Upper Body Pushing movements and Lower Body hinges.
Also, how much intensity are you bringing to it, have you tried it and are you actually staying within 130-150bpm?
Apologies if I'm mistaken but I don't think you'd be able to stay under 150bpm with what you've outlined....but if you can then I think the intensity is low enough for your particular baseline level of fitness and you'll be fine.