Clusters without Squats

[CSBC]

Good Afternoon,

I began weight-training on the Starting Strength protocol before moving onto 5/3/1. Along the way, the Squat has continued to be a hassle, and on several occasions I have tweaked my lower back which left me with back spasms and pushing progress back 2 or 3 weeks at a time. These "tweaks" are basically extreme muscle tightness in my low back around the sacrum which pulls my entire posture forward and has me waddling around like a geriatric.

My leverages aren't exactly the greatest (6'6" 240) and high/low bar and box squat variations don't seem to matter. Or maybe I'm just a pussy. Either/or.

I discovered TB and am looking to switch over to a cluster such as TB Deadlift, Press, and Weighted Pull-ups (essentially a squat-less cluster). Can anyone tell me about their experiences on this setup (or similar), good or bad. I'm also open to the idea of adding in Bulgarian split squats or step-ups - just not sure how these would be programmed and if they would be treated as an assistance exercise for higher reps.

Thanks

[jzt]

I've been doing (for the most part) the following cluster: High Handle Trap Bar Deadlifts, Ring Chin Ups and Strict Standing Overhead Press.

I have obviously done tons of squats and conv deadlifts over the years and I always notice the same thing; it takes tons of warming up and even then, the smallest mistake or an off day will lead to a tweak or an injury. My goal is to be a great athelete. Theres no point being great in the gym for 45 mins doing squats, then being injured for the rest of the time.

OHP, Trap DL and Ring Ups will cover almost all you need. I throw in some assistance when I have time/energy for it, but I don't track it (ring dips, push ups, goblet squats, kb swings, face pulls, bw ring ups, back ext, ghr, lunges). I also do boxing. That's literally all I do and I feel better than I have ever felt. Squats and Bench are insanely overrated tbh.

[Barkadion]

I've been doing (for the most part) the following cluster: High Handle Trap Bar Deadlifts, Ring Chin Ups and Strict Standing Overhead Press.

I have obviously done tons of squats and conv deadlifts over the years and I always notice the same thing; it takes tons of warming up and even then, the smallest mistake or an off day will lead to a tweak or an injury. My goal is to be a great athelete. Theres no point being great in the gym for 45 mins doing squats, then being injured for the rest of the time.

OHP, Trap DL and Ring Ups will cover almost all you need. I throw in some assistance when I have time/energy for it, but I don't track it (ring dips, push ups, goblet squats, kb swings, face pulls, bw ring ups, back ext, ghr, lunges). I also do boxing. That's literally all I do and I feel better than I have ever felt. Squats and Bench are insanely overrated tbh.

Hi jzt, couple questions if you don’t mind.. How much sets of TBDL do you usually do? Don’t you feel any issues with your upper back (lats and scapulas) doing weighted pull ups after DL? And, what is your conditioning looks like? Do you supplement some moves with GCs?

Cheers.

[jzt]

I've been doing (for the most part) the following cluster: High Handle Trap Bar Deadlifts, Ring Chin Ups and Strict Standing Overhead Press.

I have obviously done tons of squats and conv deadlifts over the years and I always notice the same thing; it takes tons of warming up and even then, the smallest mistake or an off day will lead to a tweak or an injury. My goal is to be a great athelete. Theres no point being great in the gym for 45 mins doing squats, then being injured for the rest of the time.

OHP, Trap DL and Ring Ups will cover almost all you need. I throw in some assistance when I have time/energy for it, but I don't track it (ring dips, push ups, goblet squats, kb swings, face pulls, bw ring ups, back ext, ghr, lunges). I also do boxing. That's literally all I do and I feel better than I have ever felt. Squats and Bench are insanely overrated tbh.

Hi jzt, couple questions if you don’t mind.. How much sets of TBDL do you usually do? Don’t you feel any issues with your upper back (lats and scapulas) doing weighted pull ups after DL? And, what is your conditioning looks like? Do you supplement some moves with GCs?

Cheers.

I do between 3 and 5 sets of 3 to 5 reps. I'm doing the following right now:

week 1: 3x5@70%
week 2: 4x4@75%
week 3: 5x3@80%

These rep schemes apply to all 3 lifts. I do heavy bag and boxing for conditionning, that's it. When I have time for it, I'll throw in some assistance moves (named in my previous post) at the end of my workout. I do daily mobility work too. That's it.

I used to bench, squat, run, do circuits, etc. I have modified a lot of things over the years. Went from pull ups, to chin ups to neutral chin ups to ring ups. It cleared any issues I've had with elbows/wrists. Ditched the conv deadlifts for many reasons (the use for straps or a mixed grip was a no for me + lower back at risk). Ditched squats (they always felt awkward and you can never truly get the exact same depth).

Note that this is my experience. It does not apply to everyone. My mentality is that if a strength moves requires 15 mins of mobility drills and a 20 mins warmup, as well as years of technique, it's probably not a good movement. TBDL, Ring Ups and OHP are all easy to teach and require little to no warm up. The injury risk is almost non-existent. You can micro-load each movement and track progression. I also guarantee that if you have GREAT numbers on those 3 lifts, your bench/squat/deadlift won't be terrible either.

[Barkadion]

I've been doing (for the most part) the following cluster: High Handle Trap Bar Deadlifts, Ring Chin Ups and Strict Standing Overhead Press.

I have obviously done tons of squats and conv deadlifts over the years and I always notice the same thing; it takes tons of warming up and even then, the smallest mistake or an off day will lead to a tweak or an injury. My goal is to be a great athelete. Theres no point being great in the gym for 45 mins doing squats, then being injured for the rest of the time.

OHP, Trap DL and Ring Ups will cover almost all you need. I throw in some assistance when I have time/energy for it, but I don't track it (ring dips, push ups, goblet squats, kb swings, face pulls, bw ring ups, back ext, ghr, lunges). I also do boxing. That's literally all I do and I feel better than I have ever felt. Squats and Bench are insanely overrated tbh.

Hi jzt, couple questions if you don’t mind.. How much sets of TBDL do you usually do? Don’t you feel any issues with your upper back (lats and scapulas) doing weighted pull ups after DL? And, what is your conditioning looks like? Do you supplement some moves with GCs?

Cheers.

I do between 3 and 5 sets of 3 to 5 reps. I'm doing the following right now:

week 1: 3x5@70%
week 2: 4x4@75%
week 3: 5x3@80%

These rep schemes apply to all 3 lifts. I do heavy bag and boxing for conditionning, that's it. When I have time for it, I'll throw in some assistance moves (named in my previous post) at the end of my workout. I do daily mobility work too. That's it.

I used to bench, squat, run, do circuits, etc. I have modified a lot of things over the years. Went from pull ups, to chin ups to neutral chin ups to ring ups. It cleared any issues I've had with elbows/wrists. Ditched the conv deadlifts for many reasons (the use for straps or a mixed grip was a no for me + lower back at risk). Ditched squats (they always felt awkward and you can never truly get the exact same depth).

Note that this is my experience. It does not apply to everyone. My mentality is that if a strength moves requires 15 mins of mobility drills and a 20 mins warmup, as well as years of technique, it's probably not a good movement. TBDL, Ring Ups and OHP are all easy to teach and require little to no warm up. The injury risk is almost non-existent. You can micro-load each movement and track progression. I also guarantee that if you have GREAT numbers on those 3 lifts, your bench/squat/deadlift won't be terrible either.

Thank you. Appreciate your respond.

[grumpy4669]

JZT, you running fighter or operator?

[rs12]

Over the past year I have run several no squat clusters. I have done Trap Bar DL, OHP, Pendlay rows cluster; High Pulls, OHP, Trap Bar DL cluster; and High Pulls, Trap Bar DL, and Pendlay Rows cluster. That last one was because I had a serious shoulder injury that I needed to let heal.

I have enjoyed all of those no squat clusters and gotten what I consider to be good results from them. My Trap Bar DL (low handles) has gone from 380 to 440, my Pendlay Row from 180 to 240 and my High Pull went from garbage to 220. I'm 5'6", 170 lbs so that's not terrible progress.

I ran them all on Operator with a 95% training max (except high pulls) for 3 or 4 sets per session. I find that if I push for 5 sets of DL's 3x/week my lower back gets overtaxed. I push my sled and swing kettlebells for conditioning. I don't feel like I've missed much by not squatting. I doubt you'll miss squatting very much either.

Also, maybe go get a biweekly massage or see a chiropractor about your low back. I do both and my back has never felt better.

[Barkadion]

Interestingly, the whole discussion is about fact that Grunt Cluster is less taxing than Swat Cluster.. in a way. And it is clearly stated in the books as well as customization of the exercises selection..

Also, it seems that most of the responses to the OP are about going light on conditioning.. nothing wrong about that, though. Whole idea is adjusting the program for someone who has priorities in strength development. That’s my impression, anyways.

JZT’s %% are little different, but it makes sense with DL 3/week.

[wcu25rs]

I've been doing (for the most part) the following cluster: High Handle Trap Bar Deadlifts, Ring Chin Ups and Strict Standing Overhead Press.

I have obviously done tons of squats and conv deadlifts over the years and I always notice the same thing; it takes tons of warming up and even then, the smallest mistake or an off day will lead to a tweak or an injury. My goal is to be a great athelete. Theres no point being great in the gym for 45 mins doing squats, then being injured for the rest of the time.

OHP, Trap DL and Ring Ups will cover almost all you need. I throw in some assistance when I have time/energy for it, but I don't track it (ring dips, push ups, goblet squats, kb swings, face pulls, bw ring ups, back ext, ghr, lunges). I also do boxing. That's literally all I do and I feel better than I have ever felt. Squats and Bench are insanely overrated tbh.

good post. I'm doing a similar cluster but doing weighted dips instead of OHP(I'm doing this cluster based on the thread here titled "the new big 3" I think it is), and Ive come to really change my views on heavy squats the last couple months. Even though squat has never been my favorite, ive always felt it had to be in a strength program, but at least for what I'm training for, I dont think they are necessary. Beneficial, yes, but necessary? I just dont feel they are. Since I'm doing Fighter, during one session, I'll do high handle TB, and one session I'll do low handle to get a bit more hamstring activation.

[wcu25rs]

Good Afternoon,

I began weight-training on the Starting Strength protocol before moving onto 5/3/1. Along the way, the Squat has continued to be a hassle, and on several occasions I have tweaked my lower back which left me with back spasms and pushing progress back 2 or 3 weeks at a time. These "tweaks" are basically extreme muscle tightness in my low back around the sacrum which pulls my entire posture forward and has me waddling around like a geriatric.

My leverages aren't exactly the greatest (6'6" 240) and high/low bar and box squat variations don't seem to matter. Or maybe I'm just a pussy. Either/or.

I discovered TB and am looking to switch over to a cluster such as TB Deadlift, Press, and Weighted Pull-ups (essentially a squat-less cluster). Can anyone tell me about their experiences on this setup (or similar), good or bad. I'm also open to the idea of adding in Bulgarian split squats or step-ups - just not sure how these would be programmed and if they would be treated as an assistance exercise for higher reps.

Thanks

in regards to your back, I've been having the same issues off and on for a year or more(bulged disc and tightness around the sacrum). while I have yet to find an exact cause(i go to a chiro once a month as well), what has helped is buying and reading Stuart McGill's book Back Mechanic and doing his Big Three exercises. I feel there is a correlation between back pain and a weak core. I was always under the impression that doing compound lifts builds a strong core, and it does to a degree, but all that moving in a singular plane, I learned my obliques were pretty weak. ive recently started incorporating various carries as finishers after my strength sessions. Two handed and one handed farmers carry, heavy medicine balls carried on the shoulder, Zercher carries, etc. However, what does your conditioning look like? My worst flare ups have come after harder trail runs and on descents on hikes on very uneven and rocky terrain. If you do any of these things, or anything else that involves alot of jarring, quit doing those for a while and see if it improves.