Heart rate/base for the more muscular athlete

[Equafi]

I'm in week 3 of base currently and loving it, I feel great.

But something has always bugged me and I haven't seen it discussed in running communities. It has to do with being heavier and more muscular.

I used the MAF method and got a max heart rate to train around for my base build phase. But if we took a heavier individual with more muscle mass, wouldn't it be significantly slower for them?

If we took two athletes, both the same age and also bodyfat percentage.. lets say 15% bodyfat, 5'9, one weighing 150lbs and the other weighing 200lbs. Also similarly conditioned. Now if they were both to go on a run at their target heart rate, wouldn't the heavier athletes pace be significantly slower than the lighter athlete? Due to the fact that muscle is metabolically active, consuming more oxygen and also having to move more weight. Would the heavier athlete ever be able to match the lighter athletes pace, would he have to be vastly superior in his conditioning to match pace/heartrate? Logically this makes sense to me, but I never see this being discussed.

Either way, I know it would still be beneficial for both athletes to train at a lower HR, to get the positive adaptations for the heart/muscles while at the same time avoiding injury.

And I know we don't have to look this deep into it and can always use the "run at a pace you can hold a conversation" method, but this is something I've always been curious about. What do you guys think?

[Jefferson]

Imagine the 150 athlete wearing a 50lb vest. In order to maintain the same speed and HR, they would need significant cardiovascular improvement.

I am 205 5'9", about 16% BF, and I can keep pace with lighter people, albeit it at a higher HR. But, if we both put on a 50lb vest, I will smoke them, as it's a lower percentage of my bodyweight.

Another thing to think about is running technique and economy. I rarely see anyone with good form. Most people seem to be content slamming their feet into the ground, digging in, and trying to pull themselves forward. At 205, running in huarache sandals, I am forced to run with perfect form, using stored energy and momentum. The reason I do Kettlebell swings before my runs is to cue the firing of hamstrings, and glutes.

[Barkadion]

The reason I do Kettlebell swings before my runs is to cue the firing of hamstrings, and glutes.

This became very important point for me after I pulled my hams. Glute activation drills are priceless.. My favorite once are side stepping with the bands, bird dog, and donkey kicks.

[Green2Blue]

Metabolically active? No. Muscle isn't on or off. It consumes energy based on its needs; based on how much it's being used. There's that hogwash going around that just having more muscular makes you burn more calories at rest. It does, but the amount is negligible. Having more muscle simply gives you the CAPACITY to burn more calories at higher intensities. You can suck more gas at higher RPMs.

Yes you'll burn more by weighing more, but this is far more of a problem with excess body fat in most people than muscle. Far more people are too fat instead of too muscular; virtually all of them. That being said, TB1 does have anti-hypertrophy tones throughout for that very reason; to stay lightweight.

In the end, are you going to be as efficient of a runner as a skin and bones marathoner? No. But being a tactical athlete is about being proficient in multiple domains. You've got pretty muscular guys on this forum running in the range of 10ks to half-marathons.

[Nomad]

Equafi, there was an awesome thread about HR here:

http://tacticalbarbell.com/forum/viewto ... 1&start=20

Here's a post by KB in the thread that diminished some of my ocd about it. #2 probably most applies to your question:

The heartrate guidelines are just that, guidelines. I've mentioned this before but 5-10 beats here or there isn't something to be concerned about. Here's the problem with getting hyperfocused on heartrate:

1. Daily Heart Rate Variability

Heartrate does NOT always correspond to effort. Training zones are usually meant to elicit a certain level of intensity to bring about specific adaptation.
Sleep, stress, and dehydration can raise or lower your heartrate on any given day by 5-10bpm.
Your HR can vary day to day by 2-4bpm for no reason at all.
Caffeine can elevate your HR for up to 24 hours after ingestion.
Running in hot or cold weather can increase/decrease HR as your body makes efforts to cool or vice versa.

2. The Accuracy of your HR Training Zone

The formulas used to determine max heartrate (which are then used to calculate aerobic zone etc) are based on the average. Whether this is the 130-150bpm rule of thumb or the Maff Method (220 minus your age etc.). You might be below or above average. To get YOUR actual Max HR you'd need to go to a testing facility that has the proper equipment, get hooked up and measured after doing strenuous tests like a lab rat on a wheel.

3. Equipment Precision
You can't trust the technology 100%. Things like sweat, malfunction, positioning/movement of strap, other HR monitors in the area, distance between receiver/monitor can all cause fluctuations. Some minor and some major.

So when you take all that into consideration, you can't get hung up on a few beats here or there. It's not that precise of a science to begin with. The only people that should be walking during Base are beginners that can't complete the runs continuously yet. It's simple, just go for an easy jog in 1st gear. YOUR 1st gear. Use the talk test, and look at your monitor every once in a while to make sure you're not wildly out of bounds and you'll be good to go. The HR zones are guidelines to keep you out of Tempo-mode and to stop you from breaking out in sprints or fartlek.

[Equafi]

Good info here, thanks everyone. In the end I guess it depends where your priorities lay, not getting caught up in the numbers and then just doing it.

[Nomad]

Good info here, thanks everyone. In the end I guess it depends where your priorities lay, not getting caught up in the numbers and then just doing it.

I don't have all the answers, but I would guess it depends on what your personal max aerobic heartrate is. Refer to #2 in KB's post. So maybe that heavier more muscular guy has a different baseline than the lighter guy. The MAFF and other calculations are taken off an average and turned into a baseline for use by everyone. That's like taking the resting heartrate of a thousand individuals and coming up with one number to apply for all. In real life there will be variations.

My own thinking is that it probably depends more on how well developed your cardiovascular system is. Heavier athletes can have low resting heartrates. An out of shape little guy that weighs 130lbs could wake up every morning with a 68-75 resting heartrate, yet a 220lb in shape guy can wake up with an RHR of 45-50.

Either way, when you run the monitor is monitoring your own BPM, so ultimately I don't think it matters.

[Equafi]

Good info here, thanks everyone. In the end I guess it depends where your priorities lay, not getting caught up in the numbers and then just doing it.

I don't have all the answers, but I would guess it depends on what your personal max aerobic heartrate is. Refer to #2 in KB's post. So maybe that heavier more muscular guy has a different baseline than the lighter guy. The MAFF and other calculations are taken off an average and turned into a baseline for use by everyone. That's like taking the resting heartrate of a thousand individuals and coming up with one number to apply for all. In real life there will be variations.

My own thinking is that it probably depends more on how well developed your cardiovascular system is. Heavier athletes can have low resting heartrates. An out of shape little guy that weighs 130lbs could wake up every morning with a 68-75 resting heartrate, yet a 220lb in shape guy can wake up with an RHR of 45-50.

Either way, when you run the monitor is monitoring your own BPM, so ultimately I don't think it matters.

That's a good point, the numbers being based on the average and a heavier guy potentially having a higher working heart rate baseline. Now if we could only get an average of the people with a high LBM

So far my RHR has gotten down to 55-60 and I weigh about 190lb at 5'9, but when I start running it definitely spikes. I've grown to like running at night in the cold since I can actually keep an okay pace while staying in my zone.