Combining Op and Mass (for accessories)

[jzt]

Where is the logic in that? The issue with all powerlifting routines is the lack of pulls

Interestingly the bench ,squat, ohp cluster is one from one of the TB books.

I dont remember seeing it. Which book/page?

Either way, its a shitty cluster. In any cluster you want a mix of pull, push and lower body movements. The OHP and Bench basically serve the same purpose.

People who are trying to be all around strong focus way too much on the powerlifts. Powerlifting is a "sport" and their events are the Squat, Bench and DL. If you are strong at those 3 lifts, it doesnt make you strong in the general sense of the term. Ive known "powerlifters" who could DL in the low 600s and bench in the high 300s, but I literally could not do a single pull up from the dead hang and bring the bar below their chin. That is anything but strong.

Dont neglect weighted chins.

[TBPenguin]

integrate weighted pull ups or chin ups.

Chins, pull ups, face pulls , band pull aparts and RC work I am very regular with (not all at once but some form of combination). I don't count them as my main programming as I see they are part of my shoulder and posture heath so I just do them, kind o flike core, I don't count it as part of my workout, I just do it.

And those who treat chins and pullups like that have weak upper backs compared to those that treat them as progressive lifts. Take a look at p41-42 in Mass and see what K. Black has to say. All through TB he lists it in recommended clusters (and see what he says on p2 of that). jzt is giving you the straight scoop.

[KayBee]

integrate weighted pull ups or chin ups.

Chins, pull ups, face pulls , band pull aparts and RC work I am very regular with (not all at once but some form of combination). I don't count them as my main programming as I see they are part of my shoulder and posture heath so I just do them, kind o flike core, I don't count it as part of my workout, I just do it.

And those who treat chins and pullups like that have weak upper backs compared to those that treat them as progressive lifts. Take a look at p41-42 in Mass and see what K. Black has to say. All through TB he lists it in recommended clusters (and see what he says on p2 of that). jzt is giving you the straight scoop.

So my take away from this is make pull-ups an actual part of my programming. Find my max reps and then program percentages based on this . Eg 10 max reps therefore = 7 reps in 70% week.

[TBPenguin]

So my take away from this is make pull-ups an actual part of my programming. Find my max reps and then program percentages based on this . Eg 10 max reps therefore = 7 reps in 70% week.

I don't remember if the cutoff is 10 reps or 15 reps with BW before moving to weighted, but what you describe agrees with how the books describe handling BW progression. But I would base it on how many strong full reps you can do "any day" and not use how many you can do struggling to get the last one and maybe barely getting it. Even knock a rep off that number for the first block.

[jzt]

Chins, pull ups, face pulls , band pull aparts and RC work I am very regular with (not all at once but some form of combination). I don't count them as my main programming as I see they are part of my shoulder and posture heath so I just do them, kind o flike core, I don't count it as part of my workout, I just do it.

And those who treat chins and pullups like that have weak upper backs compared to those that treat them as progressive lifts. Take a look at p41-42 in Mass and see what K. Black has to say. All through TB he lists it in recommended clusters (and see what he says on p2 of that). jzt is giving you the straight scoop.

So my take away from this is make pull-ups an actual part of my programming. Find my max reps and then program percentages based on this . Eg 10 max reps therefore = 7 reps in 70% week.

The formula is actually BW+weight times the reps (with a 1RM formula entered)

For example a 5 x 225 Bench will give you a 1RM of say 275, well for WCUs its the same, if you weigh 200lbs and strap 25lbs around your waist for 5 good reps, that means youre doing 5 x 225, so your 1RM is 275, meaning that with your BW, could could theorically do 1 rep with 75lbs around your waist.

I always plug it in like that and if the number comes out as negative, just do BW.

[KayBee]

TB and jzt , thanks..all makes sense.

So to move forward it'd appear my cluster needs a bit of a reshuffle....and if keeping it strictly TB I'd aim for Pull Ups, squat and bench (although I have considered subbing in push ups and using max-push-ups as my 1rm for push ups and programming similar to what has been discussed in the pull ups above.

I need to improve push ups so see there are 3 options :

1. I can either do 6 or so weeks of bench as MS and push ups on the side (similar to what you'd find in Block 2 of PPLE)

2. Do just bench for 6 weeks as MS and then switch in a SE block with push ups (essentially Green standard)

3. Use max push ups as my 1RM and program them in place of bench (eg 70% if max push ups for 70% week etc).

[jzt]

TB and jzt , thanks..all makes sense.

So to move forward it'd appear my cluster needs a bit of a reshuffle....and if keeping it strictly TB I'd aim for Pull Ups, squat and bench (although I have considered subbing in push ups and using max-push-ups as my 1rm for push ups and programming similar to what has been discussed in the pull ups above.

I need to improve push ups so see there are 3 options :

1. I can either do 6 or so weeks of bench as MS and push ups on the side (similar to what you'd find in Block 2 of PPLE)

2. Do just bench for 6 weeks as MS and then switch in a SE block with push ups (essentially Green standard)

3. Use max push ups as my 1RM and program them in place of bench (eg 70% if max push ups for 70% week etc).

I think this question needs to be asked: what are your goals? This usually lights the path towards an answer/appropriate template. If push ups are more important than your bench, that might move the focus around. Is cardio important? What about deadlifts? Etc.

For example, my goals are to run a 5K in sub 20 mins, Trap Deadlift 3 x 500, OHP 3 x 185 and WCUs 3 x BW+100. Therefore, I run Operator + Green with the TBDL, OHP and WCU cluster.

[KayBee]

TB and jzt , thanks..all makes sense.

So to move forward it'd appear my cluster needs a bit of a reshuffle....and if keeping it strictly TB I'd aim for Pull Ups, squat and bench (although I have considered subbing in push ups and using max-push-ups as my 1rm for push ups and programming similar to what has been discussed in the pull ups above.

I need to improve push ups so see there are 3 options :

1. I can either do 6 or so weeks of bench as MS and push ups on the side (similar to what you'd find in Block 2 of PPLE)

2. Do just bench for 6 weeks as MS and then switch in a SE block with push ups (essentially Green standard)

3. Use max push ups as my 1RM and program them in place of bench (eg 70% if max push ups for 70% week etc).

I think this question needs to be asked: what are your goals? This usually lights the path towards an answer/appropriate template. If push ups are more important than your bench, that might move the focus around. Is cardio important? What about deadlifts? Etc.

For example, my goals are to run a 5K in sub 20 mins, Trap Deadlift 3 x 500, OHP 3 x 185 and WCUs 3 x BW+100. Therefore, I run Operator + Green with the TBDL, OHP and WCU cluster.

Sorry I never got back to you......

My goals are 1.5 mile/2.4 km in 10:00-10:10. Currently at 10:40.

40 push ups, no time limit, currently around 30.

I have some body composition goals which I believe will help with running by making me a tad lighter and not carrying as much bf.

[KayBee]

So are you really thinking of a small-cluster GZCL while rotating which exercise you treated as MS & which ones as MT? That could totally work, but it's not really much like TB anymore. Nothing at all wrong with it in my eyes, I like it. No harm in the experiment.

I guess you could compare it to GZCL. I just think of it more along the lines of being a Tier system and in these always make methink of Joe Kenn and his approach to training athletes.

[jzt]

TB and jzt , thanks..all makes sense.

So to move forward it'd appear my cluster needs a bit of a reshuffle....and if keeping it strictly TB I'd aim for Pull Ups, squat and bench (although I have considered subbing in push ups and using max-push-ups as my 1rm for push ups and programming similar to what has been discussed in the pull ups above.

I need to improve push ups so see there are 3 options :

1. I can either do 6 or so weeks of bench as MS and push ups on the side (similar to what you'd find in Block 2 of PPLE)

2. Do just bench for 6 weeks as MS and then switch in a SE block with push ups (essentially Green standard)

3. Use max push ups as my 1RM and program them in place of bench (eg 70% if max push ups for 70% week etc).

I think this question needs to be asked: what are your goals? This usually lights the path towards an answer/appropriate template. If push ups are more important than your bench, that might move the focus around. Is cardio important? What about deadlifts? Etc.

For example, my goals are to run a 5K in sub 20 mins, Trap Deadlift 3 x 500, OHP 3 x 185 and WCUs 3 x BW+100. Therefore, I run Operator + Green with the TBDL, OHP and WCU cluster.

Sorry I never got back to you......

My goals are 1.5 mile/2.4 km in 10:00-10:10. Currently at 10:40.

40 push ups, no time limit, currently around 30.

I have some body composition goals which I believe will help with running by making me a tad lighter and not carrying as much bf.

Looks like you're mostly focused on E + SE work then. I suggest a cluster that fills those needs.