SE length questions

[KShea]

It's an "endurance" category workout, so I see it as a benefit going long duration.
It's muscular-endurance after all. If you do run into issues you could always switch to Alpha too.

I would not switch to Tango. IMO it's too easy to quit too early with T. With Alpha or Bravo you're forced to become better and work past your limits, because it assigns you a set number of reps. I believe Tango is best utilized after Base, like during Bangkok or one-off SE workouts.

The point of the SE stuff is strength endurance... Which doesn't necessarily mean longer time is better. The key is as many reps as possible as quickly as possible. Taking longer just means you're just beating the crap out of yourself and beating your head against the wall... I can see why you'd connect endurance with a longer session, but when it comes to strength endurance it's more about high volume/low duration.

Although there is something to be said for time under tension, but that's a bit more hypertrophy based.

The program should be challenging but not something that makes you dread your session.

[Aelian]

It's an "endurance" category workout, so I see it as a benefit going long duration.
It's muscular-endurance after all. If you do run into issues you could always switch to Alpha too.

I would not switch to Tango. IMO it's too easy to quit too early with T. With Alpha or Bravo you're forced to become better and work past your limits, because it assigns you a set number of reps. I believe Tango is best utilized after Base, like during Bangkok or one-off SE workouts.

The point of the SE stuff is strength endurance... Which doesn't necessarily mean longer time is better. The key is as many reps as possible as quickly as possible. Taking longer just means you're just beating the crap out of yourself and beating your head against the wall... I can see why you'd connect endurance with a longer session, but when it comes to strength endurance it's more about high volume/low duration.

Although there is something to be said for time under tension, but that's a bit more hypertrophy based.

The program should be challenging but not something that makes you dread your session.

Strength-endurance ties into duration. That's why selection cadre are so fond of long non-stop Fun-Runs. When you ruck 10-30 miles a day for a few weeks, you can bet your SE "muscles" are getting exercised. I see where you're coming from though, you might be thinking more in terms of PFT or timed max-rep events.

TS' original post wasn't that he was beat up or dreading his session, he was questioning if there was a downside to lengthy SE sessions. There isn't anything inherently wrong with long SE sessions, objectively it's a good thing even.

But if the issue is Josh is getting excessively beat up to the point of dreading the training, then I agree he needs to look at other options; alpha or even tango.

[BlackPyjamas]

Unfortunately, that IS the fastest I could do it. I just pulled the plug in the middle of my 3x40 workout, due to dizziness. I just don't have the conditioning. Instead of doing the Tango or Alpha basebuilding, I'm going to keep pushing what I can do with the program as is. I'll save the Alpha and Tango stuff for continuation.

You sound like a prime candidate for Alpha....SE is tough if you've never been exposed to it. With Alpha your 3x30 week would have been the hardest. Don't forget you're allowed to fail, rest , and continue on a couple reps at a time/rest as necessary. No one expects you to complete it flawlessly within the given timelines. SE is designed to make you fail, remember that!

You have other options too, like a minimalist SE cluster (2-3 exercises) as outlined in TB1. I'd recommend doing that before giving up on it completely.

[Aelian]

Unfortunately, that IS the fastest I could do it. I just pulled the plug in the middle of my 3x40 workout, due to dizziness. I just don't have the conditioning. Instead of doing the Tango or Alpha basebuilding, I'm going to keep pushing what I can do with the program as is. I'll save the Alpha and Tango stuff for continuation.

You sound like a prime candidate for Alpha....SE is tough if you've never been exposed to it. With Alpha your 3x30 week would have been the hardest. Don't forget you're allowed to fail, rest , and continue on a couple reps at a time/rest as necessary. No one expects you to complete it flawlessly within the given timelines. SE is designed to make you fail, remember that!

You have other options too, like a minimalist SE cluster (2-3 exercises) as outlined in TB1. I'd recommend doing that before giving up on it completely.

Minimalist SE cluster is a solid option, good one. Totally forgot about them.

[KShea]

Strength-endurance ties into duration. That's why selection cadre are so fond of long non-stop Fun-Runs. When you ruck 10-30 miles a day for a few weeks, you can bet your SE "muscles" are getting exercised. I see where you're coming from though, you might be thinking more in terms of PFT or timed max-rep events.

Circuit training isn't intended to go for long periods of time. It's to put the most work in the shortest time. Where I screwed up in my explanation was labeling all "strength endurance" activities under that same umbrella instead of specifically mentioning circuits. I completely agree with your point above.

TS' original post wasn't that he was beat up or dreading his session, he was questioning if there was a downside to lengthy SE sessions. There isn't anything inherently wrong with long SE sessions, objectively it's a good thing even.

But if the issue is Josh is getting excessively beat up to the point of dreading the training, then I agree he needs to look at other options; alpha or even tango.

Problem is that if he's getting dizzy mid session where he can't continue, that's going to take a toll on the body and mind. How much of a toll is dependent on the person. But it could serve as a detriment. I don't know the OP so maybe he's the kind of sadistic son of a bitch that loves that crap and thrives on it (my dude!)... But I've seen a lot of people give up when it gets that hard.

And sometimes getting beat up doesn't show it's face until further down the road, so there's not too much of a way to know. I'm not talking about simple DOMs... I'm talking more tendon/joint and muscle issues that pop up when I say "beat up".

Great post. Appreciate the discussion. I love that kind of discussion.

[Josh]

Thanks everyone for your inputs. I really appreciate them.

I did end up switching to Tango (Ageless athlete Style), despite StayGray mentioning it could be a bad idea due to me sandbagging. By logging how many reps I get per set, then I can try to beat them in the next workout, so I would still be progressing. I may also devise some kind of extra reps punishment if I don't make progress.

I am also concerned with maintaining a certain quality of form. The last 10 or so reps of a 40 rep set were super ugly, especially the rows and single leg RDLs.

KShea, to answer your questions, I'm run/walking with 5 minutes of running and 2 minutes of walking. I find this helps me avoid knee issues that I've had in the past. I don't know my 1rms, but my last sets of 5 in June were deadlift - 329, squat - 260, bench 195, and press - 110, all but DL for 3 sets across. Not very strong.