Re: Paralysis by Analysis (AKA, what should I do?)
Posted: Thu Apr 13, 2017 6:56 pm
Automatic 30 day ban.Blackmetalbunny wrote:
then mucked around .... curling a barbell in the squat rack.
Strength & Conditioning for the Operational Athlete
https://tacticalbarbell.com/forum/
Automatic 30 day ban.Blackmetalbunny wrote:
then mucked around .... curling a barbell in the squat rack.
Exactly, this is important. There are newcomers with zero training experience and no internal reference points. Some people need spoon feeding until it becomes unconscious competence. Not everyone has been in the game long enough to intuitively know what goes where. Things that may seem stupidly simple to us (although the Reddit does test my limits in that regard). Our members have an enormous amount of experience in a unique niche - it would be a waste not to share that with newbies.triple wrote:There are two kinds of people:
1) people that have internalised the principles laid out in the books to such an extent that they can be creative and devise their own program
2) people that like the mentality and principles laid out in the books, but want to be told more or less exactly what to do
I would say that it takes a lot of mental effort (+ time) as well as workout experience to go from 2) to 1). This seems to be what you are arguing as well. However, not everyone is interested in becoming a 1) (i.e. their own personal trainer), at least in the short term.
Does that make sense?
I am enjoying this thread. I do wonder how many people actually belong in "category 1"...sufficiently competent such that designing their own programming is an objectively good option for accomplishing their goals.K.B. wrote:Exactly, this is important. There are newcomers with zero training experience and no internal reference points. Some people need spoon feeding until it becomes unconscious competence. Not everyone has been in the game long enough to intuitively know what goes where. Things that may seem stupidly simple to us (although the Reddit does test my limits in that regard). Our members have an enormous amount of experience in a unique niche - it would be a waste not to share that with newbies.triple wrote:There are two kinds of people:
1) people that have internalised the principles laid out in the books to such an extent that they can be creative and devise their own program
2) people that like the mentality and principles laid out in the books, but want to be told more or less exactly what to do
I would say that it takes a lot of mental effort (+ time) as well as workout experience to go from 2) to 1). This seems to be what you are arguing as well. However, not everyone is interested in becoming a 1) (i.e. their own personal trainer), at least in the short term.
Does that make sense?
And do you recommend Black with LP for recreational beginners?K.B. wrote:BMB, excellent post. Couple points:
Is Tactical barbell for a newbie?
TB is not for you yet, start with something that uses a linear progression.
I almost always recommend LP for novice recreational athletes. However that's not the case for newbies getting into an operational line of work. Particularly recruits that are preparing for academy/boot/basic. These novices have to get good in several areas simultaneously as you know - and usually the highest priority domain is E/running. This is the domain that almost always needs the most work. Coming to academy/boot/basic with a mediocre 1rm isn't going to make or break - but come in with weak E/HIC and life is going to suck. Careers may depend on it. In this case it's more efficient having the newb lift TB style; sub-maximal/minimalist while simultaneously acclimatizing to high volume E/running/SE.
TB keeps the legs fresh so the weekly E volume can remain as high as it needs to be. Remember - the tactical newb has to regenerate from running and lifting and SE.
1RM strength does play an indirect role during boot/academy - so we certainly don't want to neglect it. Again,TB is more efficient than the alternatives;
1. High volume running coupled with LP that has you lifting 3xweek with load increases every single session. You certainly can grit your teeth and run LP alongside heavy conditioning (many do). But why would you when 1rm strength isn't at the top of your list at this stage of the game? After academy/basic/boot - go back to LP if it's still needed or soup up your TB template/cluster.
2. Not doing any strength training at all. Focusing only on SE/Cals/E.
If you're a tactical athlete, or even seek to train like one. It matters more that you are strong. Whether you are deadlifting an Abrams tank strong, or deadlifting an Abrams tank with someone's boots on top strong is irrelevant. If you can deadlift that Abrams tank, then strong enough is good enough.
Brilliant.
Understand that we're testing our 1RM for the express purposes of determining the working weight for the block. We're not testing our 1RM as an end-goal.
This is the mindset the true operational athlete needs to adopt. On the other hand if you're a strength-focused/recreational TB user then by all means a high 1RM can be a goal unto itself.
Do I need BB?
Yes, if your conditioning is bad, you’ll need more condition. In fact, almost everyone needs conditioning. Do BB. Better conditioning will improve everything in your life.
BB is optional for the recreational athlete. It is mandatory for operational athletes.
Is TB the same as powerlifting
No. Powerlifting focuses on getting 1RM bench press, squat and deadlifts as the end goal. KB chose the major compound lifts as the poster lifts and the fastest way to get inhuman levels of strength, and for the benefits they provide. We aim to lift heavy, but neither 1RM nor these 3 lifts are our end game.
Also powerlifting is a strength based program to focuses on monster levels of 1RM in the big 3 lifts
BIG 3 = End goal
Well put, can't be stressed enough - this is how we view strength as it applies to operational fitness. We don't give it lip service or train it in a random fashion. We measure it and progress it in a calculated manner. But it has to share the pedestal with other fitness domains.
Couldn't agree more. Lots of gems in this post.close_fox wrote: For some reason, the realm of fitness really brings out the DIY in people. But how often is DIY the most efficient way to accomplish a task? I don't DIY fitness programming for the same reason I don't work on my own car. It's too easy to get it done better, faster by someone who knows more than me. When I say DIY, I mean really starting from scratch or close to it. I don't mean intelligently experimenting within the parameters of the TB system. I like TB because it is a closed universe of adaptable templates, clusters, conditioning sessions, etc. Tools to be used once you understand how they work.
I have trouble understanding folks who start adding to and subtracting from TB from the start. I see posts from people out there who claim to want operational fitness via TB, but in the same heartbeat they are substituting, modifying...At what point are they just hearing what they want to hear in the text, taking the system's flexibility out of context, and using TB as a stamp of approval for doing whatever they feel like doing? I don't know the answer to that. I'm always glad when I see someone logging their first block(s) by-the-numbers, making notes, showing some humility, learning, preparing.
I guess that was a long-winded way of suggesting: TB allows incredible amount of flexibility while advancing towards the goal. New guys who want/need the type of fitness TB is designed to deliver should work the system (and maybe work it again) before injecting their own good ideas.
K.B. wrote:Automatic 30 day ban.Blackmetalbunny wrote:
then mucked around .... curling a barbell in the squat rack.
close_fox wrote:I am enjoying this thread. I do wonder how many people actually belong in "category 1"...sufficiently competent such that designing their own programming is an objectively good option for accomplishing their goals.K.B. wrote:Exactly, this is important. There are newcomers with zero training experience and no internal reference points. Some people need spoon feeding until it becomes unconscious competence. Not everyone has been in the game long enough to intuitively know what goes where. Things that may seem stupidly simple to us (although the Reddit does test my limits in that regard). Our members have an enormous amount of experience in a unique niche - it would be a waste not to share that with newbies.triple wrote:There are two kinds of people:
1) people that have internalised the principles laid out in the books to such an extent that they can be creative and devise their own program
2) people that like the mentality and principles laid out in the books, but want to be told more or less exactly what to do
I would say that it takes a lot of mental effort (+ time) as well as workout experience to go from 2) to 1). This seems to be what you are arguing as well. However, not everyone is interested in becoming a 1) (i.e. their own personal trainer), at least in the short term.
Does that make sense?
I have been following structured athletic and/or operational fitness programming for many years. That's not to say I have performed at elite levels during 100% of that time. The point is, I have had competent people telling me to do X instead of Y basically my entire life. I am now at the point where, for better or worse, I have the "freedom" to train on my own.
What has that gotten me, with terms of fitness knowledge?
Strong BS detector when it comes to fitness. Particularly when someone recommends overly complicated programs and exercises. I have spent a lot of time having the hard way (and occasionally the wrong way) imposed on me. And made plenty of mistakes on my own.
Hardwired, good form for running, rucking, PT, and most weight room exercises.
Healthy sense of what I don't know and what I'm not capable of. I have witnessed many training injuries, and experienced some myself. I can instinctively tell when I am pushing too hard or something feels wrong. I have "been there before," and that takes my ego out of the equation. It doesn't hurt my pride to back off and live to train another day.
What's not on the list?
The ability to train myself. After all that, I still don't feel qualified to be my own personal trainer. I basically know what not to do. I could design a program from scratch that won't get me injured and will get me some results, particularly in the realm of PFT scores. So what?
For some reason, the realm of fitness really brings out the DIY in people. But how often is DIY the most efficient way to accomplish a task? I don't DIY fitness programming for the same reason I don't work on my own car. It's too easy to get it done better, faster by someone who knows more than me. When I say DIY, I mean really starting from scratch or close to it. I don't mean intelligently experimenting within the parameters of the TB system. I like TB because it is a closed universe of adaptable templates, clusters, conditioning sessions, etc. Tools to be used once you understand how they work.
I have trouble understanding folks who start adding to and subtracting from TB from the start. I see posts from people out there who claim to want operational fitness via TB, but in the same heartbeat they are substituting, modifying...At what point are they just hearing what they want to hear in the text, taking the system's flexibility out of context, and using TB as a stamp of approval for doing whatever they feel like doing? I don't know the answer to that. I'm always glad when I see someone logging their first block(s) by-the-numbers, making notes, showing some humility, learning, preparing.
I guess that was a long-winded way of suggesting: TB allows incredible amount of flexibility while advancing towards the goal. New guys who want/need the type of fitness TB is designed to deliver should work the system (and maybe work it again) before injecting their own good ideas.
Thanks close_fox for sharing such a nuanced picture of your acquired knowledge and limitations as an experienced athlete / fitness person.close_fox wrote: I am enjoying this thread. I do wonder how many people actually belong in "category 1"...sufficiently competent such that designing their own programming is an objectively good option for accomplishing their goals.
...
The ability to intelligently experiment within the scope of the TB system already seems like such a huge achievement to me! Modifying even the slightest thing is scary. Newbies lack all intuition about the potential implications.close_fox wrote: What's not on the list?
The ability to train myself. After all that, I still don't feel qualified to be my own personal trainer. I basically know what not to do. I could design a program from scratch that won't get me injured and will get me some results, particularly in the realm of PFT scores. So what?
For some reason, the realm of fitness really brings out the DIY in people. But how often is DIY the most efficient way to accomplish a task? I don't DIY fitness programming for the same reason I don't work on my own car. It's too easy to get it done better, faster by someone who knows more than me. When I say DIY, I mean really starting from scratch or close to it. I don't mean intelligently experimenting within the parameters of the TB system. I like TB because it is a closed universe of adaptable templates, clusters, conditioning sessions, etc. Tools to be used once you understand how they work.
...
K.B. wrote: ...
Not everyone has been in the game long enough to intuitively know what goes where. Things that may seem stupidly simple to us (although the Reddit does test my limits in that regard).
...