TacticalBarbell.com

I was reading through TB1 earlier this evening when I came across KB's discussion on why Operator uses a 3x/week split. I have quoted the section below:

"Generally speaking, Eastern Bloc approaches favour lifting 3 or more times per week as being optimal, and 1x per week as being least effective. This is for each lift by the way. So bench pressing 4 x week is more optimal than benching once a week. I've found that for the cross-training athlete that values strength as much as conditioning, three times a week is the sweet spot."

As someone who heavily pursues strength over conditioning, I must ask the question: could a pure strength focused athlete run OP 4x/week? How would volume need to be controlled in order to make this effective? Could you stick to 3 sets per exercise, or would you need to bump it down to 2 sets in order to account for the increased frequency? How would deadlifts play into this?

KB discussed something similar to this very briefly in the following thread: http://tacticalbarbell.com/forum/viewto ... +frequency

Here's what that programming would look like in theory for a strength focused athlete looking to use TB principles while manipulating frequency:

Monday: SQ 3x5 / Bench 3x5 / Pullups 3 sets
Tuesday: SQ 3x5 / Bench 3x5 / Pullups 3 sets
Wednesday: Rest day
Thursday: SQ 3x5 / Bench 3x5 / Pullups 3 sets
Friday: SQ 3x5 / Bench 3x5 / Deadlift 3x5
Saturday: HIC on weeks 1 and 4, otherwise rest day
Sunday: Rest day

The rest of the program would follow the same progression as normal Operator, just with a fourth lifting day added into the week. Conditioning would be severely limited to accommodate the increased lifting stress, but would be kept in the program to attempt to maintain or limit the deterioration of conditioning levels. According to KB's guidelines as discussed in the thread above, the following changes would possibly need to be made to accommodate the increased frequency:

1. Work in 6 week blocks. Rest on the 7th week.
2. Deadlift no more than once per week.
3. Use a minimum RI of 3 minutes. 5 minutes when possible.
4. Make sure there's at least 24 hours between training sessions.
5. Assess yourself every 2-3 blocks in terms of recovery

What do you guys think? Is it too much? I may try and run this over the next 6 weeks and see what results I can get out of it.

Classico wrote:I was reading through TB1 earlier this evening when I came across KB's discussion on why Operator uses a 3x/week split. I have quoted the section below:

"Generally speaking, Eastern Bloc approaches favour lifting 3 or more times per week as being optimal, and 1x per week as being least effective. This is for each lift by the way. So bench pressing 4 x week is more optimal than benching once a week. I've found that for the cross-training athlete that values strength as much as conditioning, three times a week is the sweet spot."

As someone who heavily pursues strength over conditioning, I must ask the question: could a pure strength focused athlete run OP 4x/week? How would volume need to be controlled in order to make this effective? Could you stick to 3 sets per exercise, or would you need to bump it down to 2 sets in order to account for the increased frequency? How would deadlifts play into this?

KB discussed something similar to this very briefly in the following thread: http://tacticalbarbell.com/forum/viewto ... +frequency

Here's what that programming would look like in theory for a strength focused athlete looking to use TB principles while manipulating frequency:

Monday: SQ 3x5 / Bench 3x5 / Pullups 3 sets
Tuesday: SQ 3x5 / Bench 3x5 / Pullups 3 sets
Wednesday: Rest day
Thursday: SQ 3x5 / Bench 3x5 / Pullups 3 sets
Friday: SQ 3x5 / Bench 3x5 / Deadlift 3x5
Saturday: HIC on weeks 1 and 4, otherwise rest day
Sunday: Rest day

The rest of the program would follow the same progression as normal Operator, just with a fourth lifting day added into the week. Conditioning would be severely limited to accommodate the increased lifting stress, but would be kept in the program to attempt to maintain or limit the deterioration of conditioning levels. According to KB's guidelines as discussed in the thread above, the following changes would possibly need to be made to accommodate the increased frequency:

1. Work in 6 week blocks. Rest on the 7th week.
2. Deadlift no more than once per week.
3. Use a minimum RI of 3 minutes. 5 minutes when possible.
4. Make sure there's at least 24 hours between training sessions.
5. Assess yourself every 2-3 blocks in terms of recovery

What do you guys think? Is it too much? I may try and run this over the next 6 weeks and see what results I can get out of it.

My main worry about this would be the back-to-back days of SQ/BP/WPU. Operator presupposes complete freshness when you arrive for your next session. I'd want to keep it to 48 hours between barbell workouts. Also, you might think about the arithmetic a bit. If you need to cap your workouts at three sets, because you want greater frequency, you might actually come out with less volume than if you went to 5 or more sets with lower (i.e., x3 instead of x4/week) frequency. Three five set workouts beats four three set workouts (assuming the reps are constant). Just some food for thought.

Classico wrote:I was reading through TB1 earlier this evening when I came across KB's discussion on why Operator uses a 3x/week split. I have quoted the section below:

"Generally speaking, Eastern Bloc approaches favour lifting 3 or more times per week as being optimal, and 1x per week as being least effective. This is for each lift by the way. So bench pressing 4 x week is more optimal than benching once a week. I've found that for the cross-training athlete that values strength as much as conditioning, three times a week is the sweet spot."

As someone who heavily pursues strength over conditioning, I must ask the question: could a pure strength focused athlete run OP 4x/week? How would volume need to be controlled in order to make this effective? Could you stick to 3 sets per exercise, or would you need to bump it down to 2 sets in order to account for the increased frequency? How would deadlifts play into this?

KB discussed something similar to this very briefly in the following thread: http://tacticalbarbell.com/forum/viewto ... +frequency

Here's what that programming would look like in theory for a strength focused athlete looking to use TB principles while manipulating frequency:

Monday: SQ 3x5 / Bench 3x5 / Pullups 3 sets
Tuesday: SQ 3x5 / Bench 3x5 / Pullups 3 sets
Wednesday: Rest day
Thursday: SQ 3x5 / Bench 3x5 / Pullups 3 sets
Friday: SQ 3x5 / Bench 3x5 / Deadlift 3x5
Saturday: HIC on weeks 1 and 4, otherwise rest day
Sunday: Rest day

The rest of the program would follow the same progression as normal Operator, just with a fourth lifting day added into the week. Conditioning would be severely limited to accommodate the increased lifting stress, but would be kept in the program to attempt to maintain or limit the deterioration of conditioning levels. According to KB's guidelines as discussed in the thread above, the following changes would possibly need to be made to accommodate the increased frequency:

1. Work in 6 week blocks. Rest on the 7th week.
2. Deadlift no more than once per week.
3. Use a minimum RI of 3 minutes. 5 minutes when possible.
4. Make sure there's at least 24 hours between training sessions.
5. Assess yourself every 2-3 blocks in terms of recovery

What do you guys think? Is it too much? I may try and run this over the next 6 weeks and see what results I can get out of it.

Have you run Operator as-is yet? For how long? How did the frequency feel?

What are your current #s?

If you want more volume etc, instead of frequency, OP/IA might fit the bill, just my .02c.

I’m certain you will still see strength gains over time as opposed to having a 4th weekly session. Alternatively you could have something like an accessory day or an SE day.

Adski wrote:Alternatively you could have something like an accessory day or an SE day.

Reading my mind again?

J-Madd wrote:
My main worry about this would be the back-to-back days of SQ/BP/WPU. Operator presupposes complete freshness when you arrive for your next session. I'd want to keep it to 48 hours between barbell workouts. Also, you might think about the arithmetic a bit. If you need to cap your workouts at three sets, because you want greater frequency, you might actually come out with less volume than if you went to 5 or more sets with lower (i.e., x3 instead of x4/week) frequency. Three five set workouts beats four three set workouts (assuming the reps are constant). Just some food for thought.

I was assuming that volume would be kept the same with both variations. So, you'd be doing 4x5's with the 3 day split, and 3x5's with the 4 day split. So either way you're doing 12 work sets a week, they're just spread out different depending on what frequency variation you go with. For experimentation's sake I'd be interested in keeping the total sets equal.

My initial thought regarding the time between barbell workouts was the same as yours, I would think you'd need the full 48 hours to recover properly. I'm curious how this Eastern Bloc programming that KB refers to would handle the 4x/week frequency, because at least two of your sessions would have to be 24 hours apart. Maybe you could change the split to Mon/Wed/Fri/Sat? That would eliminate any two day breaks, but at least you'd only have two back-to-back sessions.

DocOctagon wrote:
Have you run Operator as-is yet? For how long? How did the frequency feel?

What are your current #s?

Yes, I ran one block of normal Operator a few months ago, the only tweak being I used OHP instead of bench. I used it in conjunction with Black conditioning protocol. I really enjoyed the program and thought the 3x/week frequency worked well when paired with the conditioning load. I'm wanting a block with a much higher strength focus, which is why I'm flirting with mostly dropping conditioning while increasing lifting frequency. I guess it really could be as simple keeping the 3x/week frequency and just increase the work sets from 3-4/5. But my curiosity was piqued when I read the bit about higher frequency being better when focusing on strength. My lifts are pretty poor, which is why I'd enjoy running some strength centered blocks.

Squat (recently switched to high bar which is weaker than my low bar): 265lbs
Press: 140lbs
Bench: 225lbs
Deadlift: 365lbs

Agree with J-Madd about concerns with the back-to-back MS days.

One of my favorite Rippetoe quotes is (something like):

"You don't get stronger by lifting weights. You get stronger by recovering from lifting weights."

Your proposed plan has heavy lifting in 4 days out of 5 successively. I think it will grind you into submission, and may even be counter-productive for increasing strength.

But, if you try it for a few blocks and it works, let us know, and I'll stand corrected.

WallBilly wrote:But, if you try it for a few blocks and it works, let us know, and I'll stand corrected.

It wouldn't be TB, though would it? Even old MASS template is about 3 days/week..

WallBilly wrote:
"You don't get stronger by lifting weights. You get stronger by recovering from lifting weights."

Not relevant to the original post, but here's a similar Wendler gem I pull out a lot (no verbatim): "You don't increase your max by testing your max. You get stronger by training."

Classico wrote: Yes, I ran one block of normal Operator a few months ago, the only tweak being I used OHP instead of bench. I used it in conjunction with Black conditioning protocol. I really enjoyed the program and thought the 3x/week frequency worked well when paired with the conditioning load. I'm wanting a block with a much higher strength focus, which is why I'm flirting with mostly dropping conditioning while increasing lifting frequency. I guess it really could be as simple keeping the 3x/week frequency and just increase the work sets from 3-4/5. But my curiosity was piqued when I read the bit about higher frequency being better when focusing on strength. My lifts are pretty poor, which is why I'd enjoy running some strength centered blocks.

Squat (recently switched to high bar which is weaker than my low bar): 265lbs
Press: 140lbs
Bench: 225lbs
Deadlift: 365lbs

One block isn't much to base a decision on, but imo you'd be better off using Operator with 4-5 sets per exercise instead. It's a small tweak that creates a massive difference in terms of strength and hypertrophy over time.

Higher frequency isn't always better, it really depends on work capacity, experience, recovery. I mean there are Russian national teams that lift several times a day, doesn't necessarily mean it's going to be the right approach for everyone. This might be of interest:

https://www.reddit.com/r/tacticalbarbel ... s_so_well/