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For those of you who have dropped the deadlift entirely and chosen a cluster like SQ / OHP / WP, have you noticed any negative effects to your athletic or job performance?

I'm looking to scale back my total volume during base building and focus on improving my cardio base, and sticking with a spartan approach of SQ / Press / WP seems to suit my fancy.

Infernal Plane wrote:For those of you who have dropped the deadlift entirely and chosen a cluster like SQ / OHP / WP, have you noticed any negative effects to your athletic or job performance?

Assuming you mean traditional DL, no. I don't think the DL makes sense for the vast majority of operational athletes. You can get sufficiently strong doing other lifts with less risk and recovery cost. I do think the RDL is fantastic. Specifically, the combination of FSQ+RDL.

I know more than a few guys who have injured themselves doing DL. I think I mentioned this in another post. I recently witnessed several guys break themselves down over the course of a deployment thanks to DL. Granted, they were trying to set weekly PRs. There are obviously much safer ways to train DLs if you are going to do it.

I only have one example of traditional DLs being a good idea for an operational athlete. I work with a guy who hates lifting (more accurately, he hates being inside the gym). But he needs to be strong. The only lift he does is DL, which is probably the closest thing to a one-lift MS solution that exists. On top of that, he does a ton of work outside...bodyweight exercises, running, and rucking. He's an absolute beast in terms of operational fitness, which in the end is all that matters. He does a pretty high volume of DL, but again...it's the only lift he does.

The deadlift offers tons of benefits, so if I were you, I would keep deadlifting. That being said, it doesn't have to be conventional deadlifts.

Conventional deadlifts are great, but they also have tons of drawbacks. If you were to put it in numbers, I would say that Conv Deadlifts are 9/10 in terms of benefits (whole posterior chain worked, grip strength, back, etc.), but 8/10 in terms of costs (injuries, recovery time, mastering form, mobility issues, etc.)

I've always found Deadlifts and Squats to both bring great benefits, but that the cost was too high; enters the Trap Bar DL. If you manage to couple de Trap DL with Lunges and/or Front Squats and GHRs, you literally get all the benefits of Squats/Deadlifts without any of the drawbacks. You could be feeling stiff, tired, underfed, etc. and still not get injured on those lifts. As an athlete (or operational athlete, or even just a recreational lifter) you should always seek out Benefits minus Costs, not just benefits.

Personally I use Press / Trap DL / W Chin Ups as my cluster and I absolutely love it. I supplement that with Lunges, GHRs, Dips, Back Ext, Reverse Hypers and BW Pull Ups. Keeps me injury free and feeling great.

I actually prefer the Trap Bar over the conventional DL. Everything about it feels more natural. I'll have to look into buying a quality one.

That said, have you ever considered killing two birds with one stone by performing Deficit TB Deadlifts and cutting out the lunges (and perhaps even front squats)?

Infernal Plane wrote:I actually prefer the Trap Bar over the conventional DL. Everything about it feels more natural. I'll have to look into buying a quality one.

That said, have you ever considered killing two birds with one stone by performing Deficit TB Deadlifts and cutting out the lunges (and perhaps even front squats)?

I'm not a fan of any form of Deadlift where you have your back nearly parallel to the ground, whether it's due to mobility issues or doing deficits. It puts massive shear stress on the lower back, which can lead to discs displacements/bulging. If you're looking to build up your erectors, go with heavy banded back extensions. Those alone with Trap DL are greater than Conv DL by a landslide.

If you wanna keep it stupid simple, you pick a Strength Cluster (Press, Trap DL, W Chin Ups), a SE cluster that complements the strength one (Dips, Lunges, Pull Ups) and throw in all the rehab/patching weakness after (Face Pulls, Back Ext, GHRs, AB work, etc.).

Keep in mind, everything I say is from an athletic point of view. Not for Strongman/Powerlifting.

jzt wrote:

Infernal Plane wrote:I actually prefer the Trap Bar over the conventional DL. Everything about it feels more natural. I'll have to look into buying a quality one.

That said, have you ever considered killing two birds with one stone by performing Deficit TB Deadlifts and cutting out the lunges (and perhaps even front squats)?

I'm not a fan of any form of Deadlift where you have your back nearly parallel to the ground, whether it's due to mobility issues or doing deficits. It puts massive shear stress on the lower back, which can lead to discs displacements/bulging. If you're looking to build up your erectors, go with heavy banded back extensions. Those alone with Trap DL are greater than Conv DL by a landslide.

If you wanna keep it stupid simple, you pick a Strength Cluster (Press, Trap DL, W Chin Ups), a SE cluster that complements the strength one (Dips, Lunges, Pull Ups) and throw in all the rehab/patching weakness after (Face Pulls, Back Ext, GHRs, AB work, etc.).

Keep in mind, everything I say is from an athletic point of view. Not for Strongman/Powerlifting.

You might think of heavy KB swings. It covers about all you need. Keep you cluster as SQ/Press/WPU and choose HICs with the swings such as ME2 for instance.
Imho.

I don’t train for work, just for general fitness. After a few lower back injuries a year ago (pre TB) dropped DL completely and currently run a Bench / Squat / WCU cluster. My HICs are mainly focussed on KB swings and sprints (Apex Hills, ME2, Single handed swings).

For me personally I don’t think I’m missing out on much, though I’m not trying to compete in a powerlifting competition. Being able to work out consistently vs having to stop start due to injury is worth more to me than deadlifting.

I have a home gym set up and would love to try trap bar deadlifts but I don’t have the bar and can’t justify the expense on buying it just to see. I would prefer to invest in a heavier KB next and continue doing what I’m doing.

Walker377 wrote:I don’t train for work, just for general fitness. After a few lower back injuries a year ago (pre TB) dropped DL completely and currently run a Bench / Squat / WCU cluster. My HICs are mainly focussed on KB swings and sprints (Apex Hills, ME2, Single handed swings).

For me personally I don’t think I’m missing out on much, though I’m not trying to compete in a powerlifting competition. Being able to work out consistently vs having to stop start due to injury is worth more to me than deadlifting.

I have a home gym set up and would love to try trap bar deadlifts but I don’t have the bar and can’t justify the expense on buying it just to see. I would prefer to invest in a heavier KB next and continue doing what I’m doing.

You can also invest to or DYI loading t- hadle. That can serve a great deal of steady progression with heavy swings.

Barkadion wrote: You can also invest to or DYI loading t- hadle. That can serve a great deal of steady progression with heavy swings.

Great idea, had never though of that. Looks like you can make one pretty cheaply.

Walker377 wrote:

Barkadion wrote: You can also invest to or DYI loading t- hadle. That can serve a great deal of steady progression with heavy swings.

Great idea, had never though of that. Looks like you can make one pretty cheaply.

http://eatmovelive52.com/new-toy-t-handle-for-swings/