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So now that I've gotten the hard copies I've been glancing back through them. One of the guidelines on conditioning I ran across was not to overdo the E work; that too much will have a negative impact on the rest of your training.

But how much is too much? I usually run Op/Black-Pro. I made the mistake of attempting an Op/Green this last block because of the tremendous improvements I saw in my running during BB. Needless to say it didn't work out and thanks to the advice from some members here I switched back to Black-Pro mid-block. However, on my weekly E workouts I'm edging back towards 10+ mile/2+ hour runs.

So the question remains: how much E is too much?

"Green is a specialist template" is how it's put in the book if I remember correctly. Unless you're training for a specific outcome involving endurance (SOF, selection, Spartan, Endurance racing) then anything over the minimums is too much. Meaning Base no more than once a year, and Black for the rest of the year. Any E sessions done during Black should stay at 30 minutes, maybe the occasional 45. Little more leeway with activities like rucking and cycling of course.

EDIT:

If you're a recreational athlete (non-operational/don't compete), then stick to the minimums would be my opinion. You're not gaining anything by long E sessions, and you're giving yourself less wriggle room in terms of recovery and food intake.

If you're operational or running Black-Pro, then 1-2 hours plus once a week isn't going to have a negative impact. You just have to self monitor a little more closely and adjust calories. There's slightly less room for error.

I agree with Doc.

Included in the green group would be athletes that understand and willingly sacrifice a degree of strength/muscle for their sport. Marathon runners, triathletes, cyclists. These athletes know they'll never reach their full potential in terms of strength or muscle gain, and they don't care.

For everyone else, there's black.

Green2Blue wrote: But how much is too much? I usually run Op/Black-Pro. However, on my weekly E workouts I'm edging back towards 10+ mile/2+ hour runs.

So the question remains: how much E is too much?

Should add, in the context of Black-Pro, up to an hour or 2 once a week shouldn't pose any problems. Black Pro assumes an operational need. That being said, self-monitor, if it starts having an adverse effect dial it back a little, or up your calories.

If you're non-operational, or don't compete--- i.e training for recreation & health, then sticking to the minimums will allow you to optimize other areas with more room for error.

Read your post the wrong way first time!

Green2Blue wrote:So now that I've gotten the hard copies I've been glancing back through them. One of the guidelines on conditioning I ran across was not to overdo the E work; that too much will have a negative impact on the rest of your training.

But how much is too much? I usually run Op/Black-Pro. I made the mistake of attempting an Op/Green this last block because of the tremendous improvements I saw in my running during BB. Needless to say it didn't work out and thanks to the advice from some members here I switched back to Black-Pro mid-block. However, on my weekly E workouts I'm edging back towards 10+ mile/2+ hour runs.

So the question remains: how much E is too much?

Once a week isn't going to do anything, even at 2 hours+. Overdoing it would be doing Green protocol when you don't have to, or doing 1-2 hour+ runs more than once a week on a regular basis.

Interesting question....I think it depends;

1. What are your goals?
2. How well do you have your nutrition dialed in?
3. Do you have a tendency to gain muscle easily, or are you a "hard gainer"
4. How important is growing muscle to you?
5. How important is endurance to you?
6. How old are you?

I know many people that run 3-4 x week for 40-45 mins+ with little effect on strength and/or muscle. They might have to take a little more care with getting in sufficient calories, but that's about it.

But maybe if you changed a few parameters, like say turn those people into 45 yrs +, make them people that have struggled to gain muscle all their lives, and don't have their nutrition zero'd in, then it becomes a different story. Add in the goal of increasing or maintaining muscle mass as an anti-aging strategy. In that scenario going beyond the minimums for E seem pointless, and E becomes an obstacle.

Aelian wrote:Interesting question....I think it depends;

1. What are your goals?
2. How well do you have your nutrition dialed in?
3. Do you have a tendency to gain muscle easily, or are you a "hard gainer"
4. How important is growing muscle to you?
5. How important is endurance to you?
6. How old are you?

I know many people that run 3-4 x week for 40-45 mins+ with little effect on strength and/or muscle. They might have to take a little more care with getting in sufficient calories, but that's about it.

But maybe if you changed a few parameters, like say turn those people into 45 yrs +, make them people that have struggled to gain muscle all their lives, and don't have their nutrition zero'd in, then it becomes a different story. Add in the goal of increasing or maintaining muscle mass as an anti-aging strategy. In that scenario going beyond the minimums for E seem pointless, and E becomes an obstacle.

I can witness on your list! I'm 46 with lack of sleep and some extra activities due to having newborn twins. My pathetic thinking was that I can get away with having 1HR LSS runs for every other week with running Black OP. Guess what? I have started with 1HR and I am down to 40 min now and I feel like broken machine afterwords. I run every other Saturday and the weekend kinda ruined after that.

Lesson is learned, though! I will not cross 30min line from now on! KB is right as usual..

I appreciate all of the input guys. I didn't quite mean to make this just about my own training, but as a general question. I'm just an example.

It looks as though the consensus is ~2 hours once a week is fine as long as you closely monitor.

So let's expand the conversation. How do you monitor? Performance drops are an obvious way, but if you have been doing the longer E for a while you might not have dramatic and noticeable drops. Lack of progression then? But what if your other attributes are relatively close to maximum potential? And there are a LOT of variables for lack of progression. Body weight? If your weight starts to drop off (with a trend) you can add calories.

And does anyone have an opinion on the original question? How much is too much? 3 hour sessions? Obviously it depends on the individual but general rules can still be made.

DocOctagon wrote:"Green is a specialist template" is how it's put in the book if I remember correctly. Unless you're training for a specific outcome involving endurance (SOF, selection, Spartan, Endurance racing) then anything over the minimums is too much. Meaning Base no more than once a year, and Black for the rest of the year. Any E sessions done during Black should stay at 30 minutes, maybe the occasional 45. Little more leeway with activities like rucking and cycling of course.

EDIT:

If you're a recreational athlete (non-operational/don't compete), then stick to the minimums would be my opinion. You're not gaining anything by long E sessions, and you're giving yourself less wriggle room in terms of recovery and food intake.

If you're operational or running Black-Pro, then 1-2 hours plus once a week isn't going to have a negative impact. You just have to self monitor a little more closely and adjust calories. There's slightly less room for error.

I have no imminent plans which require special endurance, and I don't love long E sessions. So I am happy enough to stick to the minimums. But I thought that I read that in terms of heart adaptation, there was some benefit to going 45 minutes or an hour. Which has me sometimes thinking that I should do such a session now and then. Tell me I've remembered wrong!

DocOctagon wrote:"Green is a specialist template" is how it's put in the book if I remember correctly. Unless you're training for a specific outcome involving endurance (SOF, selection, Spartan, Endurance racing) then anything over the minimums is too much. Meaning Base no more than once a year, and Black for the rest of the year. Any E sessions done during Black should stay at 30 minutes, maybe the occasional 45. Little more leeway with activities like rucking and cycling of course.

EDIT:

If you're a recreational athlete (non-operational/don't compete), then stick to the minimums would be my opinion. You're not gaining anything by long E sessions, and you're giving yourself less wriggle room in terms of recovery and food intake.

If you're operational or running Black-Pro, then 1-2 hours plus once a week isn't going to have a negative impact. You just have to self monitor a little more closely and adjust calories. There's slightly less room for error.

I agree with the good Doctor. I have to say, however, that I'm a sort of an odd duck here: I like long E sessions. One of my biggest training struggles is keeping myself from doing too much LSS. Last winter/spring was the first time I had gone completely "Black" since I quit powerlifting a few years ago, and the results were great. So I get it now that I need to keep my E habit in check. To that end, when I'm not in BB, I run a very strict "no more than once/2 weeks" for LSS. When I do go for a LSS, I tend to go for 45-60 min, but that's not because I think I"m getting some extra benefit over the minimum. I just like it.

Last Saturday it had actually been three weeks, instead of two, since my last long LSS. I was interested to see whether I would have any trouble, since that was the longest I've gone without doing any extended E work in a few years. I had no trouble at all. I clipped out a course that I would normally do in 60 min in 55 min, and I was casual the whole way. Trust the system.