Vegetarian Athlete

[Barkadion]

Vegetarianism has a certain esthetic appeal, but I don't think it's optimal for those that bang heavy weights. I've experimented with shorter bouts of meat free eating (whole food only), but it's difficult for me to feel both satisfied and not bloated.

Now.. This is interesting. Can you elaborate, please? I have similar personal experience in the past but I do not understand this.

In terms of esthetic appeal, it seems "cleaner", "lighter", and more "natural". This might partially be because most meat is such low quality and comes shrink wrapped in Styrofoam like hazardous waste. Preparing it, is more akin to surgery (wash hands, wash surface, wash knife, wash hands, wash everything) than preparing a clean healthy animal for consumption. When I get game meat or wild caught fish, I don't have the same qualms. Also I enjoy fruits and vegetables. So any excuse to spend $5/pound on asparagus works for me.

In theory - One should see no difference with going meatless if the calories/macros are in place and the diet is supported by proper supplementation (B12 and such).. Especially if some animal protein and fats are still around (like: eggs, fish, dairy..).

I think calories and macro nutrients are overrated, over utilized, and like a broken clock, right twice a day. Food is more than just fuel, it conveys information about the environment. Further, nutrient density and availability is way different between animal and plant sources. Compare a can of beans to a can of sardines. Sardines read like an anti-aging supplement: 688mg DHA, 313mg EPA, B12, Vit D, Selenium, Coenzyme Q10, Calcium, Vit A, etc. Can of beans: mostly carbs, fiber, protein, some calcium, and iron.

Eat six raw egg yolks with 150g of white rice, 150g of steak, 1 can of sardines, 200g of asparagus, top with an acidic sauce, and salt liberally. You'll wake up like a 16 year old, annoy the wife, bang heavy weights, hit a run, and still have energy to spare. Try the same with a vegan meal. In my experience, I can't make it work. Everyone is different though so your mileage may vary.

At the end of the day, I try and stuff my face with a wide variety of nutrient dense foods. When I go to a social event, or out to dinner then I don't worry about it. I also eat more fruit and veg than a lot of vegans I know, but I also have 50 extra pounds of muscle.

Haha, ok. Thank you.

Vegan is a bit of extreme and it seats on the end of the line of options. Do you have any experience/opinions on just meatless ride with welcoming fish, eggs, and dairy?

[Jefferson]

Vegetarianism has a certain esthetic appeal, but I don't think it's optimal for those that bang heavy weights. I've experimented with shorter bouts of meat free eating (whole food only), but it's difficult for me to feel both satisfied and not bloated.

Now.. This is interesting. Can you elaborate, please? I have similar personal experience in the past but I do not understand this.

In terms of esthetic appeal, it seems "cleaner", "lighter", and more "natural". This might partially be because most meat is such low quality and comes shrink wrapped in Styrofoam like hazardous waste. Preparing it, is more akin to surgery (wash hands, wash surface, wash knife, wash hands, wash everything) than preparing a clean healthy animal for consumption. When I get game meat or wild caught fish, I don't have the same qualms. Also I enjoy fruits and vegetables. So any excuse to spend $5/pound on asparagus works for me.

In theory - One should see no difference with going meatless if the calories/macros are in place and the diet is supported by proper supplementation (B12 and such).. Especially if some animal protein and fats are still around (like: eggs, fish, dairy..).

I think calories and macro nutrients are overrated, over utilized, and like a broken clock, right twice a day. Food is more than just fuel, it conveys information about the environment. Further, nutrient density and availability is way different between animal and plant sources. Compare a can of beans to a can of sardines. Sardines read like an anti-aging supplement: 688mg DHA, 313mg EPA, B12, Vit D, Selenium, Coenzyme Q10, Calcium, Vit A, etc. Can of beans: mostly carbs, fiber, protein, some calcium, and iron.

Eat six raw egg yolks with 150g of white rice, 150g of steak, 1 can of sardines, 200g of asparagus, top with an acidic sauce, and salt liberally. You'll wake up like a 16 year old, annoy the wife, bang heavy weights, hit a run, and still have energy to spare. Try the same with a vegan meal. In my experience, I can't make it work. Everyone is different though so your mileage may vary.

At the end of the day, I try and stuff my face with a wide variety of nutrient dense foods. When I go to a social event, or out to dinner then I don't worry about it. I also eat more fruit and veg than a lot of vegans I know, but I also have 50 extra pounds of muscle.

Haha, ok. Thank you.

Vegan is a bit of extreme and it seats on the end of the line of options. Do you have any experience/opinions on just meatless ride with welcoming fish, eggs, and dairy?

In my opinion, there is no benefit to removing meat, but keeping fish, eggs, and dairy in the diet. Quality fish is expensive, and not without issues of heavy metals. Many people develop allergies to eggs. Dairy can also cause people issues. There are a lot of protein similarities (cross reactivity) between eggs, dairy, gluten, etc. So by eating wide variety of protein sources we can attempt to avoid these issues.

Meat is relatively benign. In order of least bad I consume: game, beef, pork, chicken, turkey. If you can, grass-fed is probably better, but even that isn't all that clear. I order from US Wellness meats whenever they have 15% off codes. I get 20-30lbs of ground beef, liverwurst, braunschwieger, headcheese, chicken sausages, jerky snacks.

Also probably good to eat meat on the bone cut and bone broths, (to make sure you're getting collagen, glycosaminoglycans, glycine, minerals), and all the other bits that help heal connective tissue. I also take collagen protein powder.

If you want to remove meat for ethical reasons, personal beliefs or just taste preference, fine. But to claim a health benefit is specious at best.

[OldManAsh]

Vegan checking in. I gave up all animal products for ethical reasons almost six years ago, and I'd rate it the single best decision I've made for my life and health. I'd screwed around in the gym on and off all my life, but didn't start strength training seriously (read: following a real program consistently) until October of last year. Given a history of back problems and running related injuries, I've been adding weight conservatively (deadlift especially). Current numbers are...

M 39
6'2", 225 lbs, ~18 bf

Squat 285 x3
Bench 215 x3
OHP 145 x3
Deadlift 245 x5

Nutrition is solid, and I take in ~3500 cal / day of primarily whole and unprocessed plant-based food. I avoid fake meats and most everything that comes out of a box when I cook at home, and generally get 150-180 g/day protein, though I don't stress too much about my macros and just focus instead on eating food that's a nutrient dense as possible. I'm in my first week of base building, and had planned to start a training log. I can add details about fueling on plants if there's interest.

[Barkadion]

Vegan checking in.

Awesome! Thanks!

I gave up all animal products for ethical reasons almost six years ago, and I'd rate it the single best decision I've made for my life and health.

Respect!

I'd screwed around in the gym on and off all my life, but didn't start strength training seriously (read: following a real program consistently) until October of last year. Given a history of back problems and running related injuries, I've been adding weight conservatively (deadlift especially). Current numbers are...

M 39
6'2", 225 lbs, ~18 bf

Squat 285 x3
Bench 215 x3
OHP 145 x3
Deadlift 245 x5

Nutrition is solid, and I take in ~3500 cal / day of primarily whole and unprocessed plant-based food. I avoid fake meats and most everything that comes out of a box when I cook at home, and generally get 150-180 g/day protein, though I don't stress too much about my macros and just focus instead on eating food that's a nutrient dense as possible. I'm in my first week of base building, and had planned to start a training log. I can add details about fueling on plants if there's interest.

Really.. Anything you can share will be highly appreciated. The goods, the odds, the struggles, protein source, performance changes, body comp...

I am about your height/weight and I was ~2K-2.5K cal prior TB which allowed me to maintain about 14%BF year around without sweating it. I have jumped to 3.5K cal with BB and that was a blast! I have stopped counting ever since that.. So.. I hear ya.

Cheers, mate

[Barkadion]

I am giving a try to meatless regimen this week. Started on Monday.

I am getting protein from dairy (yogurt and cottage cheese), fish, and whey protein powder. I haven't used protein powder for years. Now I am back to it. Personally, I don't like fish and I can eat only small amount of it.. So it is mostly daury and protein powder for now.

Also, I am back to counting macros to make sure I can get all I need.

So far so good. Well.. It's been few days. Will see.

I can feel some mental pressure, though Funny.

No meat craving so far.

[bytes-cruncher]

I have been vegetarian all my life and am running zulu/operator for last 1.5 - 2 years. The only thing that was hard for me was the protein intake, which after including whey protein and few eggs was not a concern anymore. My key protein sources are lentils, chickpeas, beans, eggs, milk, yogurt, and whey. For carbs, it is brown rice, breads, etc. Initially, it may feel like you are eating more than before but once your macros are dialed in, and you get the results, then it is worth it.

You can also find pastas that are made from chickpeas, e.g., banza pasta (http://www.eatbanza.com/).

[Barkadion]

I have been vegetarian all my life and am running zulu/operator for last 1.5 - 2 years. The only thing that was hard for me was the protein intake, which after including whey protein and few eggs was not a concern anymore. My key protein sources are lentils, chickpeas, beans, eggs, milk, yogurt, and whey. For carbs, it is brown rice, breads, etc. Initially, it may feel like you are eating more than before but once your macros are dialed in, and you get the results, then it is worth it.

You can also find pastas that are made from chickpeas, e.g., banza pasta (http://www.eatbanza.com/).

Thanks mate! I am experimenting with that now.. It does feel like I eating more so far (it is my 1st week, though). Also, I am not used to eat beans and lentils, so I'll need to learn it.

Appreciate the link!

[Barkadion]

Finishing up my first month of meatless regimen. I am very pleased with the results. I don't see any downsides of training meatless so far. Both I and my wife feel great. My wife went complete vegan for a month. I just cut down the meats.
She is doing some sort of tabatta conditioning and yoga training on the regular basis.

I am going back to meats next week.

Next step would be to have few meatless days/week on the regular basis. I am thinking 2 days for now.

Cheers!

[WhoDey]

Nice thread.

Because of health issues (heart problem a little over a year ago), I have made changes to my diet. I have cut out red meat (beef/pork), but allow myself chicken/fish/seafood. I also dramatically reduced my intake of dairy. All has been good (I dropped 25 pounds quite easily).

I'm just beginning TB, so it will be interesting to see how training and diet coexist!

Barkadion ... I have enjoyed reading your training log. Thank you for taking the time to share your journey.

[Barkadion]

Nice thread.

Because of health issues (heart problem a little over a year ago), I have made changes to my diet. I have cut out red meat (beef/pork), but allow myself chicken/fish/seafood. I also dramatically reduced my intake of dairy. All has been good (I dropped 25 pounds quite easily).

I'm just beginning TB, so it will be interesting to see how training and diet coexist!

Barkadion ... I have enjoyed reading your training log. Thank you for taking the time to share your journey.

Cheers mate!