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From what I understand, whey protein is a complete protein that includes BCAAs. So what's the purpose of using BCAAs pre or during workout instead of just whey with water? What do BCAAs do for you that whey doesn't?

Bump....

i'm going off memory here and incomplete knowledge and understanding.

i believe protein breaks down to amino acids, and the common advice of 1g/lb of protein is in part to get the appropriate amount of amino acids to rebuild muscles. what you're really trying to do in eating/drinking that much protein is get the right amount of amino acids. some protein (e.g. whey) is better than others in providing this.

BCAA's starting gaining some momentum a few years ago because of this guy Martin Berkhan and his "leangains guide". essentially he was intermittent fasting to super leanness and was pretty yoked. he was doing fasted cardio and weightlifting while leveraging BCAA's to prevent catabolism during his fasted workouts. he used the BCAA's as a sort of insurance policy that didn't kick him out of a fasted state like whey protein would.

i'd say the long and short of it is - if you are getting enough quality daily protein and aren't doing fasted training, then BCAA's are probably unnecessary.

http://www.leangains.com/2009/12/fasted ... rowth.html

Careful with the BCAA lads....depletes serotonin/tryptophan and tyrosine (dopamine):

http://suppversity.blogspot.ca/2013/08/ ... fects.html

Better off sticking with a complete protein.

spemma wrote:i'm going off memory here and incomplete knowledge and understanding.

i believe protein breaks down to amino acids, and the common advice of 1g/lb of protein is in part to get the appropriate amount of amino acids to rebuild muscles. what you're really trying to do in eating/drinking that much protein is get the right amount of amino acids. some protein (e.g. whey) is better than others in providing this.

BCAA's starting gaining some momentum a few years ago because of this guy Martin Berkhan and his "leangains guide". essentially he was intermittent fasting to super leanness and was pretty yoked. he was doing fasted cardio and weightlifting while leveraging BCAA's to prevent catabolism during his fasted workouts. he used the BCAA's as a sort of insurance policy that didn't kick him out of a fasted state like whey protein would.

i'd say the long and short of it is - if you are getting enough quality daily protein and aren't doing fasted training, then BCAA's are probably unnecessary.

http://www.leangains.com/2009/12/fasted ... rowth.html

Interesting thanks.

StayGrey wrote:Careful with the BCAA lads....depletes serotonin/tryptophan and tyrosine (dopamine):

http://suppversity.blogspot.ca/2013/08/ ... fects.html

Better off sticking with a complete protein.

Yikes. I think I'll hold off for now and stick with my whey then.

StayGrey wrote:Careful with the BCAA lads....depletes serotonin/tryptophan and tyrosine (dopamine):

http://suppversity.blogspot.ca/2013/08/ ... fects.html

Better off sticking with a complete protein.

Well.. That's controversial topic..

https://examine.com/supplements/branche ... ino-acids/

Barkadion wrote:

StayGrey wrote:Careful with the BCAA lads....depletes serotonin/tryptophan and tyrosine (dopamine):

http://suppversity.blogspot.ca/2013/08/ ... fects.html

Better off sticking with a complete protein.

Well.. That's controversial topic..

https://examine.com/supplements/branche ... ino-acids/

Controversial how? What am I not seeing in your link?

Ten8 wrote:

Barkadion wrote:

StayGrey wrote:Careful with the BCAA lads....depletes serotonin/tryptophan and tyrosine (dopamine):

http://suppversity.blogspot.ca/2013/08/ ... fects.html

Better off sticking with a complete protein.

Well.. That's controversial topic..

https://examine.com/supplements/branche ... ino-acids/

Controversial how? What am I not seeing in your link?

You will see "No significant alterations" claims if you dig through their Human Effect Matrix. Such as "Similar to the other catecholamines (adrenaline and noradrenaline), serum dopamine does not appear to be altered with supplemental BCAAs." You can go all the way to the studies they reference and you can decide for yourself if it makes sense.

My point is that topics like that are always controversial. It is shitty nature of the pharmaceutical business. They need to sell it to you. And you can almost always find studies that are controversial.

My personal thought is.. I don't see any reason of taking BCAA if you have sufficient protein intake unless you are training fasted. The worst case is that you are facing placebo effect. But we live in placebo reality anyway.

And it can be different for different individuals indeed..

Barkadion wrote:

Ten8 wrote:

Barkadion wrote:
Well.. That's controversial topic..

https://examine.com/supplements/branche ... ino-acids/

Controversial how? What am I not seeing in your link?

You will see "No significant alterations" claims if you dig through their Human Effect Matrix. Such as "Similar to the other catecholamines (adrenaline and noradrenaline), serum dopamine does not appear to be altered with supplemental BCAAs." You can go all the way to the studies they reference and you can decide for yourself if it makes sense.

My point is that topics like that are always controversial. It is shitty nature of the pharmaceutical business. They need to sell it to you. And you can almost always find studies that are controversial.

My personal thought is.. I don't see any reason of taking BCAA if you have sufficient protein intake unless you are training fasted. The worst case is that you are facing placebo effect. But we live in placebo reality anyway.

And it can be different for different individuals indeed..

Maybe, but almost all the human and rat studies point to a decrease in serotonin (tryptophan) as being responsible for most of the beneficial effect (decrease in perception of fatigue/fatigue). Couple examples right off pubmed including the latest:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27803630

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23904096

The second one is very concerning because it also shows a decrease in tyrosine/catecholamines which would hinder exercise performance and mental alertness...

I'm curious to see the exact studies Examine is using for their "human effect matrix"

The argument for just using a complete protein like whey over bcaa is that whey contains tryptophan and tyrosine etc, whereas bcaa doesn't.