Technique and Strength in the Martial Arts

[DocOctagon]

Everything being equal than sure it's better to be the stronger man in a fight. Not a particularly bold or innovative stance to take....it's like saying eating less helps you lose weight. I guess I'm looking at it more from a point of view of prioritizing. I don't know that you're going to find too many high level MMA coaches prescribing 3-5 day strength protocols during training camps. Usually it's 2 a week with the bulk of time being spend on conditioning/cardio and technique...at times conditioning and technique start becoming the same thing. For more well-known examples; Ross Enamait's 50 day plan = 2 days of strength work. Joel Jamieson's 8 Weeks Out = 2 strength sessions on average. Of course this can (and should) be dialed up or down depending on the individual fighter. If strength is a particular fighter's weaknesses then it certainly needs to be shored up and given more attention.

[Tyr0331]

Everything being equal than sure it's better to be the stronger man in a fight. Not a particularly bold or innovative stance to take....it's like saying eating less helps you lose weight. I guess I'm looking at it more from a point of view of prioritizing. I don't know that you're going to find too many high level MMA coaches prescribing 3-5 day strength protocols during training camps. Usually it's 2 a week with the bulk of time being spend on conditioning/cardio and technique...at times conditioning and technique start becoming the same thing. For more well-known examples; Ross Enamait's 50 day plan = 2 days of strength work. Joel Jamieson's 8 Weeks Out = 2 strength sessions on average. Of course this can (and should) be dialed up or down depending on the individual fighter. If strength is a particular fighter's weaknesses then it certainly needs to be shored up and given more attention.

Makes sense. Now that being said, is everyone that is currently training MA using fighter/fighter I/A as their strength template? What about Zulu? Op I/A?

[Maxrip13]

Strength is used a lot more in BJJ than you think, but it is applied in a different way.
Holding someone is side control requires strength but it doesn't even feel like you are trying hard. If you are that guy on the bottom someone going 70% can feel like they are monstering you.

At the lower levels the stronger athlete will generally win all other things even, but as you go up in proficiency it's quite regularly the more technical athlete.
This changes again at the upper level where everyone technique is similar and strength and conditioning is again the deciding factor.

I am stronger and better conditioned than 90% of the people I train with due to my work and training background. I have no issues manhandling people both previously in the military and now in Law enforcement. There are those 10% of guys both in the gym and at work that will be both stronger and better conditioned than me. That is why I train with minimal strength and focus on improving my technique for most rolling sessions.

My plan is if I am technically better then I can counter those people who are physically better than me. If I always really on that strength and conditioning to beat people in the gym then I have no backup plan if someone is stronger/fitter than me.

I am a big believer in saving that 100% performance for "game day".

[Maxrip13]

Everything being equal than sure it's better to be the stronger man in a fight. Not a particularly bold or innovative stance to take....it's like saying eating less helps you lose weight. I guess I'm looking at it more from a point of view of prioritizing. I don't know that you're going to find too many high level MMA coaches prescribing 3-5 day strength protocols during training camps. Usually it's 2 a week with the bulk of time being spend on conditioning/cardio and technique...at times conditioning and technique start becoming the same thing. For more well-known examples; Ross Enamait's 50 day plan = 2 days of strength work. Joel Jamieson's 8 Weeks Out = 2 strength sessions on average. Of course this can (and should) be dialed up or down depending on the individual fighter. If strength is a particular fighter's weaknesses then it certainly needs to be shored up and given more attention.

Makes sense. Now that being said, is everyone that is currently training MA using fighter/fighter I/A as their strength template? What about Zulu? Op I/A?

Fighter for me currently while I sub in deadlifts for a bit. IMO OP I/A is superior though.

I think the best strategy is to prioritize MMA/BJJ/NinjitsuMaga and then tick off you strength and conditioning sessions.

I tick it off like a calendar and decide how many sessions and of what I want to complete before retesting/force progressing my lifts.

Full cycle of OP I/A =9 MS Sessions
Ticking them off means sometimes I do 2x Sessions a week and sometimes as much as 4.

I include conditioning as I see fit. I either do a short finisher involving heavy carries or higher volume bodyweight work.
The grappling covers the rest of my conditioning.

I add in the the occasional 30 min + LSS run.

If I felt I needed more conditioning I would do a structured HIC with a bit more volume. I find I get more from the loaded carries and wrestling class on a Wednesday night.

Hopefully the above makes sense. I might have an example in my log if not I will run it again soon as I have recovered from some injuries.

[Barkadion]

For more well-known examples; Ross Enamait's 50 day plan = 2 days of strength work.

http://rosstraining.com/blog/strength-t ... -fighters/

Summary

- Train the body as a unit, not a collection of small pieces
- Focus most of your time around compound movements
- Develop a strong core
- Incorporate variety into your strength program
- Do not limit yourself to one modality
- Target multiple strength qualities
- Steer clear of failure when training for pure strength
- Never sacrifice skill and conditioning for strength work
- Focus on quality over quantity
- Keep strength workouts brief, 2 to 3 days per week

[Barkadion]

For more well-known examples; Ross Enamait's 50 day plan = 2 days of strength work.

http://rosstraining.com/blog/strength-t ... -fighters/

Excellent article from 11 years ago..

Summary

- Train the body as a unit, not a collection of small pieces
- Focus most of your time around compound movements
- Develop a strong core
- Incorporate variety into your strength program
- Do not limit yourself to one modality
- Target multiple strength qualities
- Steer clear of failure when training for pure strength
- Never sacrifice skill and conditioning for strength work
- Focus on quality over quantity
- Keep strength workouts brief, 2 to 3 days per week

[WallBilly]

Just a point, Bark's article from Starting Strength was not written by Rip. It was a guest article by some other dude named Dave Longley.

The fact that it was published on SS means that Rip endorses it, I assume.

I also have much respect for Rip, but his disdain for TB-style conditioning seems to be a flaw. He pushes the prowler occasionally, but actually makes fun of people who choose to actually, you know, run.

[Tyr0331]

Everything being equal than sure it's better to be the stronger man in a fight. Not a particularly bold or innovative stance to take....it's like saying eating less helps you lose weight. I guess I'm looking at it more from a point of view of prioritizing. I don't know that you're going to find too many high level MMA coaches prescribing 3-5 day strength protocols during training camps. Usually it's 2 a week with the bulk of time being spend on conditioning/cardio and technique...at times conditioning and technique start becoming the same thing. For more well-known examples; Ross Enamait's 50 day plan = 2 days of strength work. Joel Jamieson's 8 Weeks Out = 2 strength sessions on average. Of course this can (and should) be dialed up or down depending on the individual fighter. If strength is a particular fighter's weaknesses then it certainly needs to be shored up and given more attention.

Makes sense. Now that being said, is everyone that is currently training MA using fighter/fighter I/A as their strength template? What about Zulu? Op I/A?

Fighter for me currently while I sub in deadlifts for a bit. IMO OP I/A is superior though.

I think the best strategy is to prioritize MMA/BJJ/NinjitsuMaga and then tick off you strength and conditioning sessions.

I tick it off like a calendar and decide how many sessions and of what I want to complete before retesting/force progressing my lifts.

Full cycle of OP I/A =9 MS Sessions
Ticking them off means sometimes I do 2x Sessions a week and sometimes as much as 4.

I include conditioning as I see fit. I either do a short finisher involving heavy carries or higher volume bodyweight work.
The grappling covers the rest of my conditioning.

I add in the the occasional 30 min + LSS run.

If I felt I needed more conditioning I would do a structured HIC with a bit more volume. I find I get more from the loaded carries and wrestling class on a Wednesday night.

Hopefully the above makes sense. I might have an example in my log if not I will run it again soon as I have recovered from some injuries.

Absolutely makes sense and I agree that for building strength, Op I/A is much more efficient than fighter, where I feel I am just maintaining the strength I have. I haven’t tested Op I/A with rest days longer than two days in between each session, so I was attributing the gains I made to the consistency of the template. With those longer gaps you had in between the MS training sessions on Op I/A, did you still feel fine with the loading on each lift? I notice I perform the best with my lifts the more consistent I am with less rest days in between. Especially on the heavy weeks

[godjira1]

just my 2 cents worth:

i have been competing in BJJ for the last 3 years and somehow managed decent success in it as an old hobbyist competitor, and in my high school days I did well in judo competitions too. I am definitely not an elite level fighter but for those who have jobs, life, kids, etc here are what i think are priorities... in that order:

a) Sport Specific Conditioning. Roll a lot, find the different gears because you won't be able to go full retard every match in a tournament either. This is king - get in a few absolutely 100% effort rolls to mimic the effect of competition, it is quite different from a 95% effort. Becoming good at this lets your brain stay alert through sessions and you pick up more stuff too.

b) Game plan/Mental training. I gotta admit, while drillers are killers, I don't have all the time/inclination to do it. BUT I do have a spreadsheet with a gameplan, what to do in each situation (top 3 things), my favourite sequences, etc (and I change it up once in a while). And it makes for a pretty fun light training session where you just run through the movements in your gameplan. Where possible, always roll with a specific objective/theme (eg. only finishes from back this month, or only use overunder pass, or only DLR/RDLR guard)

c) Get strong enough. Skill acquisition and conditioning take many hours to accomplish. So my take on strength for very specifically BJJ/Judo: do a linear program with 3-4 times/week for 2-3 months (kinda like a base building using Starting Strength). If you do not do stupid things you should be able to get to 1x BW BP, 1.5x BW SQT, approx 2x BW DL, and say 10 chinups or pullups. What I say might be sacrilegious on this forum but I reckon that is a "strong enough" level. In that, it will take many training hours to improve your strength from here, and hours are better spent on technique and conditioning from here... you have milked the easy gains. From there, go to a fighter program, pick 2 lifts... sometimes you improve, other times not really, but you are not gonna get weaker.

[Maxrip13]

Makes sense. Now that being said, is everyone that is currently training MA using fighter/fighter I/A as their strength template? What about Zulu? Op I/A?

Fighter for me currently while I sub in deadlifts for a bit. IMO OP I/A is superior though.

I think the best strategy is to prioritize MMA/BJJ/NinjitsuMaga and then tick off you strength and conditioning sessions.

I tick it off like a calendar and decide how many sessions and of what I want to complete before retesting/force progressing my lifts.

Full cycle of OP I/A =9 MS Sessions
Ticking them off means sometimes I do 2x Sessions a week and sometimes as much as 4.

I include conditioning as I see fit. I either do a short finisher involving heavy carries or higher volume bodyweight work.
The grappling covers the rest of my conditioning.

I add in the the occasional 30 min + LSS run.

If I felt I needed more conditioning I would do a structured HIC with a bit more volume. I find I get more from the loaded carries and wrestling class on a Wednesday night.

Hopefully the above makes sense. I might have an example in my log if not I will run it again soon as I have recovered from some injuries.

Absolutely makes sense and I agree that for building strength, Op I/A is much more efficient than fighter, where I feel I am just maintaining the strength I have. I haven’t tested Op I/A with rest days longer than two days in between each session, so I was attributing the gains I made to the consistency of the template. With those longer gaps you had in between the MS training sessions on Op I/A, did you still feel fine with the loading on each lift? I notice I perform the best with my lifts the more consistent I am with less rest days in between. Especially on the heavy weeks

I do well with the extra rest personally if I am pushing heavier weights. It doesn't feel like I am but my lifts are definitely stronger with more recovery. The session itself feels much harder, but when I go back over my logs I consistently lift heavier when I have more than one day between sessions.

It comes down to your lift percentage. I sit around double body weight on my squat and dead lift and there is no way I am hitting true 80-85% sessions in the 5 rep range and also training BJJ. If I want to lift heavy 1 day between is no where near enough and there is no chance I am doing any sport on the side. If I use a conservative training max and extended rests I can get the job done.

My next 6-12 week block will be using OP I/A and Black. My HIC will be short due to my BJJ however.