Training Max: Seeing a Pattern

[WallBilly]

So, basically, you are keeping your Zulu format bareboned. No accessories. Interesting.

For some reason my mind was working differently. The choice between OP and Z for me is more like a choice between main lifts only and main lifts and assistance work. I am not saying that I am right or wrong, or yada yada yada.. just sharing my thoughts...

Also, I hate doing HIC after lifts. But that's me.

That's one piece of K Black advice that I take and stick to pretty religiously. I do no accessory work (or so-called "finishers") on strength days.

As it is, Operator is taking me 60-75 minutes when I try to get in 5 sets, depending on rest interval for light or heavy weeks.

I get kettlebell work once or twice a week with Apex Hills. I get a combination of GC and weightlifting 2-3 times a week with ice hockey goaltending. (down to the knees and bounce back up 40 or 50 times a session wearing 40 pounds of gear.)

If I were to do accessory work, I should work on my pullups and chinups, and probably some curls because my so-called "guns" are not impressive, even though I'm reasonably strong. I've said this before, but heavy squats to parallel are all the core work I need; my core has never been stronger.

But, hey, I'm 54 and my major goal at this point is to not fall apart!

[J-Madd]

May I ask you why you go for Zulu this fall? I am just genuinely curious in your thinking as experienced lifter..

I'm not absolutely sure I'm going with Zulu, but that's where I'm leaning now. Here's my rationale:

(a) For the next block, strength and muscle are my first priority, and in particular I want to give the DL some love I haven't for a long time. On either template I will have the same cluster: SQ/BP/WPU/DL. On Operator I would WPUx2/week and DLx1. With Zulu I would WPUx2/week and DLx2/week. Thus, the WPU comes out the same either way, and, though the SQ and BP take a hit (going form x3/week to x2/week), my priority lift comes out the winner with Zulu.

(b) I've only done one complete block of Zulu. My reasons for getting away from were pretty stupid -- I was basically trying to do everything at once. I'd like to give Zulu more honest try under the conditions for which it was originally designed. Right now I'm in the mood to be a bit more of an old-fashioned gym rat.

The decision will come down to whether I have the guts to try DLing x2/week again. As you know, that has not gone well for me in the past, but at those times I was pushing both the volume and intensity much harder than what I have in mind now. If I decide to go with DLx1/week, sticking with Operator is a no-brainer.

[Barkadion]

That's one piece of K Black advice that I take and stick to pretty religiously. I do no accessory work (or so-called "finishers") on strength days.

As it is, Operator is taking me 60-75 minutes when I try to get in 5 sets, depending on rest interval for light or heavy weeks.

I get kettlebell work once or twice a week with Apex Hills. I get a combination of GC and weightlifting 2-3 times a week with ice hockey goaltending. (down to the knees and bounce back up 40 or 50 times a session wearing 40 pounds of gear.)

If I were to do accessory work, I should work on my pullups and chinups, and probably some curls because my so-called "guns" are not impressive, even though I'm reasonably strong. I've said this before, but heavy squats to parallel are all the core work I need; my core has never been stronger.

But, hey, I'm 54 and my major goal at this point is to not fall apart!

Good shit, man. Good shit.

If I'd be able to pull the same attitude in 8 years from now.. I'd be pleased.

I do respect your ice hockey stuff. For me it's like tactical rumble. Intense and bloody. And conditioned.

BTW, that KB advice. It was personal to your programming I take, right? There is an example of Zulu with assistance from the book. That's why my mind might've slipped a bit.

As OP timing I have the same experience plus some time for warmup and cool down. About one hour and I am fine with that.

[Barkadion]

May I ask you why you go for Zulu this fall? I am just genuinely curious in your thinking as experienced lifter..

I'm not absolutely sure I'm going with Zulu, but that's where I'm leaning now. Here's my rationale:

(a) For the next block, strength and muscle are my first priority, and in particular I want to give the DL some love I haven't for a long time. On either template I will have the same cluster: SQ/BP/WPU/DL. On Operator I would WPUx2/week and DLx1. With Zulu I would WPUx2/week and DLx2/week. Thus, the WPU comes out the same either way, and, though the SQ and BP take a hit (going form x3/week to x2/week), my priority lift comes out the winner with Zulu.

(b) I've only done one complete block of Zulu. My reasons for getting away from were pretty stupid -- I was basically trying to do everything at once. I'd like to give Zulu more honest try under the conditions for which it was originally designed. Right now I'm in the mood to be a bit more of an old-fashioned gym rat.

The decision will come down to whether I have the guts to try DLing x2/week again. As you know, that has not gone well for me in the past, but at those times I was pushing both the volume and intensity much harder than what I have in mind now. If I decide to go with DLx1/week, sticking with Operator is a no-brainer.

Thank you.

Would you consider some DL alternatives such as RDL or block pulls for Zulu? Or even trap bar variation?

Would you keep it bareboned or add some assistance?

[J-Madd]

RDl's are interesting, but I really want to do some good old fashioned pulling from the deck. I have to admit that I actually get pretty bored with assistance work, so as long as the strength/muscle progress happening, I will keep it barebones. I have thought a little about doing something like Zulu with DL just x1/week, but on the other day a standard Zulu trainee would I DL I would we instead do some farmers carries and/or rows. In general, my preference is to add volume with the big lifts rather than adding accessories.

[Barkadion]

RDl's are interesting, but I really want to do some good old fashioned pulling from the deck. I have to admit that I actually get pretty bored with assistance work, so as long as the strength/muscle progress happening, I will keep it barebones. I have thought a little about doing something like Zulu with DL just x1/week, but on the other day a standard Zulu trainee would I DL I would we instead do some farmers carries and/or rows. In general, my preference is to add volume with the big lifts rather than adding accessories.

Thank you.

[WallBilly]

BTW, that KB advice. It was personal to your programming I take, right? There is an example of Zulu with assistance from the book. That's why my mind might've slipped a bit.

I have gotten some valuable personal advice from KB, but not about minimalist training or avoiding accessory or assistance work. He speaks about that fairly often in his books, especially with the client examples. "Seth is a blah blah and he wants to do blah blah. He did 2 blocks of Operator with no accessory lifts using a training max and he conquered the world!

Sorry, my dark sense of humor doesn't like to be chained up too long.

By the way, regarding this thread:

I just finished 95% Operator/Black week without a training max. First time, no training max. I figured I'd do an easy 30 minute E jog, just got done. It was not easy. My body is pissed at me. Very, very pissed at me.

Back to the training max!

[WallBilly]

. . . . In general, my preference is to add volume with the big lifts rather than adding accessories.

Agreed, and the new edition of TB strength with the added volume in standard Operator has been solid for me.

[J-Madd]

My body is pissed at me. Very, very pissed at me.

Back to the training max!

If you are freezing a little fried from pushing the intensity on your lifts in your 90% week, you might think about taking a deload week, even if you are only just finished Operator Week 3. I just did something like this, and it was just what the doctor ordered:

Sunday: Off
Monday: GC (e.g., Brig Rat) or Tango SE (all bodyweight and/or light KBs)
Tuesday: Off
Wednesday: Off
Thursday: Off
Friday: Grip (e.g, Progressive Grip Circuit) or core (e.g., Full Core)
Saturday: Off

That still keeps you active, you can work on some other attributes, but there is still plenty of rest and recharge. I'm starting to incorporate these planned recharge weeks into my blocks.

[Barkadion]

If you are freezing a little fried from pushing the intensity on your lifts in your 90% week, you might think about taking a deload week, even if you are only just finished Operator Week 3. I just did something like this, and it was just what the doctor ordered:

Sunday: Off
Monday: GC (e.g., Brig Rat) or Tango SE (all bodyweight and/or light KBs)
Tuesday: Off
Wednesday: Off
Thursday: Off
Friday: Grip (e.g, Progressive Grip Circuit) or core (e.g., Full Core)
Saturday: Off

That still keeps you active, you can work on some other attributes, but there is still plenty of rest and recharge. I'm starting to incorporate these planned recharge weeks into my blocks.

Basically, this is a variation of what KB suggested in "After 40 Club" thread.. 3weeks push/1week off blocks. Frequent breathers trough the sweat.