Get strong first?

[myllanac]

I am a novice to the barbell squat and bench.

I have some experience with deadlift, mostly from “grease the groove” and other high-frequency protocols in the 75-85% intensity zone. I am at 300x2, 275x5.

I’m 32, office job, family life. This kind of thing is a hobby/interest/personal development activity for me. Just want to be strong enough for a healthy life. I was sedentary since college, but got into fitness 2.5 years ago with kettlebells (which I still enjoy, but now recognize as a better tool for strength endurance, not max strength).

I like the look of both the Operator and the minimalist Zulu (squat, bench, rest, squat, bench+deadlift) templates.

But as I don’t know my RMs (5-, 3-, or certainly 1) with SQ and BP, is a basic linear progression best until I stop making progress, then switch to one of the TB protocols? Is TB suitable for rank novices?

[Arnifrid]

IMO, linear progression programs are a joke. Just because you can add weight week to week, doesn't mean you should - people stall harder on programs like Stronglift 5x5 and Starting Strength than any other programs. Granted, even though these programs are only meant to be run for a few months, I still feel like you're setting people up with bad expectations for the future if you get them in the mindset of increasing weight every week.

TB will be fine for you, from page 15 of TB 3rd Edition: "What I want you to take from this is that whether you're currently squatting 500lbs or just the bar, the program will be tailored to you and your current level of strength."

[mikhou]

I think that it would be a great idea to run a linear progression program until you find a good approximation of your estimated 1RM. My personal favorite is Greyskull LP with the caveat that you know when to push and when not to on the AMRAP sets. But I like the slower progression of GSLP vs. Starting Strength, and I do like the AMRAP sets until you start getting close to your 5RM. Then I wouldn't push it too hard. Just do your 3 sets of 5 and keep progressing until you can't anymore. Once you stall out, knock 10% off and take another run at linear progression and after the second stall, take a few days off, test your maxes, and jump into TB.

[grouchyjarhead]

I will add you can use linear progression with TB templates if you approach it in a different fashion.

If you're doing the standard cluster of BP/SQ/PU or DL, rather than adding weight every session you can add weight every week. This way you get 2-3 good sessions in with the same weight before bumping it up. I am doing the same with the Grunt cluster using a Fighter approach (due to being off for a while due to injury and then illness) and the workouts so far are short, productive, and feeling strong each time.

It's not as quick as say Starting Strength or Stronglifts, but being that I was born closer to bell bottom pants than I'd like to admit it's a better progression for me personally. It also is allowing me to get stronger while still doing several endurance sessions a week (hill sprints, rucking, and running - occasional boxing session). I'm only about a month in, once I do a full run of it I'll probably be sharing more of my experience here.

[VenomousCoffee]

I guess I don't understand the OP's question. If you don't know your 1RMs, that's fine, just test them. Honestly, if you're lifting light/novice weight, you should be able to do all 3 in one day. I don't see how that would affect your larger program.

If the question is, I still lift novice/light weight, should I use another program and then switch to TB? Then I would say it depends on your goals. If your goals are like those of TB (getting stronger while also improving conditioning), then do TB. If you just want to get as strong as possible, then I'd say follow a more traditional powerlifter-style program.

tl;dr I think your choice of program should come from your goals, not from your lifting #s or cardio level. My cardio flat-out sucked when I started TB and now it's a lot better. I don't think that pre-prep for TB would have helped with that.

[TBPenguin]

If you don't have much experience with the lifts, spend a few weeks getting good at doing them properly. Then starting adding weight as Grouchy describes. There is no reason for you to test for months, and probably not even then.

[Maxrip13]

I am a novice to the barbell squat and bench.

I have some experience with deadlift, mostly from “grease the groove” and other high-frequency protocols in the 75-85% intensity zone. I am at 300x2, 275x5.

I’m 32, office job, family life. This kind of thing is a hobby/interest/personal development activity for me. Just want to be strong enough for a healthy life. I was sedentary since college, but got into fitness 2.5 years ago with kettlebells (which I still enjoy, but now recognize as a better tool for strength endurance, not max strength).

I like the look of both the Operator and the minimalist Zulu (squat, bench, rest, squat, bench+deadlift) templates.

But as I don’t know my RMs (5-, 3-, or certainly 1) with SQ and BP, is a basic linear progression best until I stop making progress, then switch to one of the TB protocols? Is TB suitable for rank novices?

I am doubling up a bit on what other people have said and there is some good advice already.

It sounds like you are coming from a pavel,RKC or strongfirst background.

Reading your post it sounds like you just want to lift to be a bit healthier and stronger. If you can be a bit more specific with your goals we can help a bit more mate.

Two ways to go:

Linear progression and learning the lifts with one of the already mentioned programs. This is a good option if you just want to lift and have no other sport commitments. This will add a bit of muscle, strength and give you some time under the bar. You will get strong quickly and your squat and bench will go up faster, but you might not have the best technique yet.

Use TB Operator. You are lifting 3 x a week with a full body routine anyway so similar amount of time under the bar and reps.The only difference is you take longer before progressing the weight. Instead of progressing daily, you have set weights to lift. You will still add muscle and strength, but you will do it slower. You can then retest and work out a new percentage for the next cycle. You are able to do sport or other activities because you aren’t always adding weight to the bar.

You can’t really go wrong either way. Just be smart. Linear progression means you can start with an empty bar and add weight each session. TB means watching some vids and being smart about how much weight you put on the bar for some very conservative 3-5 rep maxes in your squat and bench. You have some training background already and should be able to work it out safely.

[mikhou]

You can’t really go wrong either way. Just be smart.

This is the key. I said earlier:

Then I wouldn't push it too hard. Just do your 3 sets of 5 and keep progressing until you can't anymore.

I bet that you would find great benefit in a linear progression program that allows you to learn the form while progressing slowly, but you could even do this using Operator as Grouchy said, using your main lifts 3x per week but only progressing weekly. The biggest problems that people run into with Greyskull is when they try to push too hard on the AMRAP sets. So, if you just run a linear progression sticking to the 3x5 until you get to a point where you stall or perhaps your feeling beatdown and then switch to TB-style programming, I think that you find that it'll be great for general health and fitness.

[griff]

I will add you can use linear progression with TB templates if you approach it in a different fashion.

If you're doing the standard cluster of BP/SQ/PU or DL, rather than adding weight every session you can add weight every week. This way you get 2-3 good sessions in with the same weight before bumping it up. I am doing the same with the Grunt cluster using a Fighter approach (due to being off for a while due to injury and then illness) and the workouts so far are short, productive, and feeling strong each time.

I'm new to these forums, but I agree with this method. As most templates seem to use 3x5/3x5/3x3 over three weeks, you could bump the weight by 10-20lbs on the third week, rather than 5-10lbs on the other weeks