All,
This is my first post. Thanks in advance for any insight.
I am 45 years old which using 55-75% puts me in 96 - 131 BPM aerobic zone. I want to include a hike and/or a mountain bike ride in my BB (and later continuation protocols). The problem is when I hike and ride in my hilly areas, my HR shoot ups to 150-160 repeatedly (oftentimes for 10 minute stretches or longer). I don't feel gassed when this happens, and I actually really enjoy the feeling and challenge. Plus, I have no choice unless I want to go super slow or walk my bike which I despise. So, is doing this once a week going to impact my BB? Also, this happens when I try running on flat terrain (~140-150 BPM). So in a way I feel stuck there too.
When hiking is outside aerobic zone
Re: When hiking is outside aerobic zone
Two options I would consider.
1. Slow down and stay in that aerobic mode. That might mean going slower or avoiding those hills for basebuilding at least.
2. In my opinion you can get away with it if it’s for short periods and your heart rate is in the right zone 90% of the time.
Do you have to go through those hills every session ? If you can avoid them for basebuilding it would be the best option. In Continuation you can go outside of those heart rate zones for your green sessions so you can just wait till then to hit those hills.
1. Slow down and stay in that aerobic mode. That might mean going slower or avoiding those hills for basebuilding at least.
2. In my opinion you can get away with it if it’s for short periods and your heart rate is in the right zone 90% of the time.
Do you have to go through those hills every session ? If you can avoid them for basebuilding it would be the best option. In Continuation you can go outside of those heart rate zones for your green sessions so you can just wait till then to hit those hills.
Re: When hiking is outside aerobic zone
Thanks, Maxrip!
Re: When hiking is outside aerobic zone
Quoting from TBII: "It’s not necessary to have a heart rate monitor, but if you do you should be in the 120-150bpm or 50%-70% of max heart rate range."
So maybe I misunderstood earlier, as I thought he was referring to max HR being (220 - age) which for me is 175. If 120-150 bpm is still considered LSS E, regardless that I'm 45, than that would make things a lot better while hiking and MTBing.
Am I off here?
So maybe I misunderstood earlier, as I thought he was referring to max HR being (220 - age) which for me is 175. If 120-150 bpm is still considered LSS E, regardless that I'm 45, than that would make things a lot better while hiking and MTBing.
Am I off here?
Re: When hiking is outside aerobic zone
You are aiming in the right ballpark for heart-rate already - you can use the simple 180-age formula and aim for +/- 5pct of that.
If you are only spiking for short periods then no issue, I reckon you get away with it. But if it is too much/too often, what happens is: a) you adapt differently, you are getting fitter but it's not quite base aerobic fitness that is gaining; b) you will probably need more recovery time, reducing the overall volume of your training.
I would take a look at your HR over a hiking/biking session and if you are in the aerobic zone (eg. zone 3 in garmin speak, the green one) for at least 80% of the time I wouldn't fuss about it.
If you are only spiking for short periods then no issue, I reckon you get away with it. But if it is too much/too often, what happens is: a) you adapt differently, you are getting fitter but it's not quite base aerobic fitness that is gaining; b) you will probably need more recovery time, reducing the overall volume of your training.
I would take a look at your HR over a hiking/biking session and if you are in the aerobic zone (eg. zone 3 in garmin speak, the green one) for at least 80% of the time I wouldn't fuss about it.
It ain't what you don’t know that gets you into trouble.
It's what you know for sure that just ain’t so.
It's what you know for sure that just ain’t so.
Re: When hiking is outside aerobic zone
Sounds good. Thanks, Godjira!
Re: When hiking is outside aerobic zone
The idea is to build a base level of fitness and aim for specific adaptions to your heart and body. Think of it as training vs working out.
You want to be in that easy heart rate zone to allow you to go for the longest time possible, provided that is your goal.e.g base building/Green.
Once you finish base building the goal of green is to improve your E so you can go outside that heart rate if it meets your goals.
You still want to keep the majority of your sessions within the heart rate values, but you will need to sometimes go outside of that.
My LSS run route has some hills in it and I slow down to keep myself within the correct values because my goal is to improve my base LSS fitness. In the coming months I will be aiming for some specific run times and these hills will definitely put me outside the correct heart rate value if I want to meet my run time goals.
You want to be in that easy heart rate zone to allow you to go for the longest time possible, provided that is your goal.e.g base building/Green.
Once you finish base building the goal of green is to improve your E so you can go outside that heart rate if it meets your goals.
You still want to keep the majority of your sessions within the heart rate values, but you will need to sometimes go outside of that.
My LSS run route has some hills in it and I slow down to keep myself within the correct values because my goal is to improve my base LSS fitness. In the coming months I will be aiming for some specific run times and these hills will definitely put me outside the correct heart rate value if I want to meet my run time goals.
Re: When hiking is outside aerobic zone
I get the idea of aerobic base building. I was doing the Maffetone method for some time, never going above 136 BPM. I ended up giving it up because there was no way I could mountain bike or hike in my local mountains without going above that for large portions of the hike/ride. Well, actually I could stay in that range, but I would have to hike aggravatingly slow, and as far as MTB, there is no way as I'm not walking my bike uphills (even that ramps my HR up pretty good). This also rules out running for me (even on flat terrain). All this may sound like I'm "out of shape," but I don't think I am (I know that is very subjective). I can hike/ride 8-9 miles with good elevation gain and little rest.
The main reason I asked this question is I didn't see where higher-intensity endurance fit in other than Green?. TBII mentions rucking which I thought would be analogous to hiking/MTBing in terms of intensity and HR. As far as Green/Black, I was afraid this would land me in Green, but I am not looking for extreme endurance. Part of my long term conditioning goals is to be able to hike or MTB hard on the weekend. This could be for a few hours or maybe more, which as of now will definitely put me out of aerobic zone for up to 30-40 minutes duration (with maybe a few breathers to bring me back to 120BPM). So maybe Green it is?
Just for more info (and to possibly make me look more confused) I also value maximum strength. I have set some rather conservative strength goals of which I am 60% there: SQ=225, OHP=135, WEIGHTED DIP=75, WPU=45, DL=315. Considering all this (including my weekly hike/ride), my tentative plan for continuation protocol was going to be one of the below:
FIGHTER I/A / GREEN
* MON - SQ/WD/WPU/DL
* TUE - E (LSS 30) + YOGA
* WED - SQ/WD/WPU/DL
* THU - E (LSS 30) + CORE/GRIP
* FRI - SE BARBELL COMPLEX
* SAT - OFF
* SUN - HIC? (HIKE/RIDE 60)
ZULU / GREEN
* MON - Zulu A - SQ/OHP + E (LSS 30)
* TUE - Zulu B - WD/WPU + E (LSS 30)
* WED - CORE/GRIP + YOGA
* THU - Zulu A - SQ/OHP + E (LSS 30)
* FRI - Zulu B - WD/DL + CORE/GRIP
* SAT - OFF
* SUN - HIC? (HIKE/RIDE 60)
I know in either of those, my strength will be slower but I am okay with that for at least a few blocks. As prescribed, I will mix in an HIC session every other week in place of E. After lots of going back and forth trying to balance my goals using TB principles, those are what I came up with. Any suggestions?
Thanks again for the insight.
The main reason I asked this question is I didn't see where higher-intensity endurance fit in other than Green?. TBII mentions rucking which I thought would be analogous to hiking/MTBing in terms of intensity and HR. As far as Green/Black, I was afraid this would land me in Green, but I am not looking for extreme endurance. Part of my long term conditioning goals is to be able to hike or MTB hard on the weekend. This could be for a few hours or maybe more, which as of now will definitely put me out of aerobic zone for up to 30-40 minutes duration (with maybe a few breathers to bring me back to 120BPM). So maybe Green it is?
Just for more info (and to possibly make me look more confused) I also value maximum strength. I have set some rather conservative strength goals of which I am 60% there: SQ=225, OHP=135, WEIGHTED DIP=75, WPU=45, DL=315. Considering all this (including my weekly hike/ride), my tentative plan for continuation protocol was going to be one of the below:
FIGHTER I/A / GREEN
* MON - SQ/WD/WPU/DL
* TUE - E (LSS 30) + YOGA
* WED - SQ/WD/WPU/DL
* THU - E (LSS 30) + CORE/GRIP
* FRI - SE BARBELL COMPLEX
* SAT - OFF
* SUN - HIC? (HIKE/RIDE 60)
ZULU / GREEN
* MON - Zulu A - SQ/OHP + E (LSS 30)
* TUE - Zulu B - WD/WPU + E (LSS 30)
* WED - CORE/GRIP + YOGA
* THU - Zulu A - SQ/OHP + E (LSS 30)
* FRI - Zulu B - WD/DL + CORE/GRIP
* SAT - OFF
* SUN - HIC? (HIKE/RIDE 60)
I know in either of those, my strength will be slower but I am okay with that for at least a few blocks. As prescribed, I will mix in an HIC session every other week in place of E. After lots of going back and forth trying to balance my goals using TB principles, those are what I came up with. Any suggestions?
Thanks again for the insight.
Re: When hiking is outside aerobic zone
As I just read the "Read Before You Post" section, I may have flubbed with this post. But in an effort to be within guidelines, here is some more info:
Age/sex: Male/45
Weight: 180
Training Goal: All-around fitness/15% body fat/moderate max strength/well conditioned for outdoor pursuits
Strength Template: Fighter 1/A or Zulu
Conditioning Protocol: Green for now
Lift numbers: Calculated 1RM are SQ=185, OHP=110, DIP (weighted)=250, DL=185, CHIN=7
SE/Bodyweight numbers: PU=45
Run Times: NOT TESTED
Diet - dietary restrictions i.e. like low carb or keto: Targeted Keto
Age/sex: Male/45
Weight: 180
Training Goal: All-around fitness/15% body fat/moderate max strength/well conditioned for outdoor pursuits
Strength Template: Fighter 1/A or Zulu
Conditioning Protocol: Green for now
Lift numbers: Calculated 1RM are SQ=185, OHP=110, DIP (weighted)=250, DL=185, CHIN=7
SE/Bodyweight numbers: PU=45
Run Times: NOT TESTED
Diet - dietary restrictions i.e. like low carb or keto: Targeted Keto
Re: When hiking is outside aerobic zone
Essay below:albatross wrote:I get the idea of aerobic base building. I was doing the Maffetone method for some time, never going above 136 BPM. I ended up giving it up because there was no way I could mountain bike or hike in my local mountains without going above that for large portions of the hike/ride. Well, actually I could stay in that range, but I would have to hike aggravatingly slow, and as far as MTB, there is no way as I'm not walking my bike uphills (even that ramps my HR up pretty good). This also rules out running for me (even on flat terrain). All this may sound like I'm "out of shape," but I don't think I am (I know that is very subjective). I can hike/ride 8-9 miles with good elevation gain and little rest.
The main reason I asked this question is I didn't see where higher-intensity endurance fit in other than Green?. TBII mentions rucking which I thought would be analogous to hiking/MTBing in terms of intensity and HR. As far as Green/Black, I was afraid this would land me in Green, but I am not looking for extreme endurance. Part of my long term conditioning goals is to be able to hike or MTB hard on the weekend. This could be for a few hours or maybe more, which as of now will definitely put me out of aerobic zone for up to 30-40 minutes duration (with maybe a few breathers to bring me back to 120BPM). So maybe Green it is?
Just for more info (and to possibly make me look more confused) I also value maximum strength. I have set some rather conservative strength goals of which I am 60% there: SQ=225, OHP=135, WEIGHTED DIP=75, WPU=45, DL=315. Considering all this (including my weekly hike/ride), my tentative plan for continuation protocol was going to be one of the below:
FIGHTER I/A / GREEN
* MON - SQ/WD/WPU/DL
* TUE - E (LSS 30) + YOGA
* WED - SQ/WD/WPU/DL
* THU - E (LSS 30) + CORE/GRIP
* FRI - SE BARBELL COMPLEX
* SAT - OFF
* SUN - HIC? (HIKE/RIDE 60)
ZULU / GREEN
* MON - Zulu A - SQ/OHP + E (LSS 30)
* TUE - Zulu B - WD/WPU + E (LSS 30)
* WED - CORE/GRIP + YOGA
* THU - Zulu A - SQ/OHP + E (LSS 30)
* FRI - Zulu B - WD/DL + CORE/GRIP
* SAT - OFF
* SUN - HIC? (HIKE/RIDE 60)
I know in either of those, my strength will be slower but I am okay with that for at least a few blocks. As prescribed, I will mix in an HIC session every other week in place of E. After lots of going back and forth trying to balance my goals using TB principles, those are what I came up with. Any suggestions?
Thanks again for the insight.
That makes mores sense. If you have already used the maffetone method to build a base then you can push your E work.
I was of the understanding that you were doing a basebuild, but had forgotten the goal of it a bit and were pushing your hiking and rides to far.
I am in a similar boat at the moment, but I am still using my E runs to build a base of sorts. I do the following:
3x LSS (30+ Min)
2x BJJ (HIC, even though its 90 min)
2x Strength(Fighter)
7x Walk (Active recovery, 30 min minimum)
Your ride is still technically E. You are going for an extended period (30+) and it becomes an endurance session.
I do 2x E sessions were I stick to Maffetone values, between 30-60 mins. This gives me 2 easy heart based E sessions each week, 9 if you include my walks.
My 3rd E session is where I would occasionally push myself. This is where I fit a 90 min run, Pack march or fun run. I allow my heart rate to go outside the usual ranges in this session. This is where your ride/hike fits in and you seem to have covered that in the above templates. The SE day will probably cause issues for the ride/hike and I would drop it unless you have a particular reason for including it?
Remember what your goal is with training. If your goal is to get outside and ride/hike etc that is the priority over all else. Make everything else tick the minimum boxes to meet the goal. 2x strength, 2x LSS and then go enjoy yourself on the weekend with the run or hike. It will fluctuate between HIC, SE and E, but due to the duration I would treat it as E.
Hopefully that all makes sense.