After 40 club

[Barkadion]

Bark, I don't see any reason to back off on the weighted pullups. I can still do them very heavy. I think if the reps are done well, this is not a risky lift. I will grant you that acceptable grip options may change as we age. My shoulder is not thrilled with palms away, but palms facing and parallel are fine. But that is just me.

I've almost always done conventional DL, but have started experimenting with sumo to see if it is less risky. For me at least, rack pulls are worse. Not sure RDLs are good at the lower reps.

Benching is something I see going away over time. It just takes more and more efforts to make it not bother the shoulders.

I'm interested in your experiences using the unilateral stuff, both legs and upper body. You've commented on both the incline bench and Bulgarian splits as effective - in what way? How do you think they compare to the barbell lifts? HAve you been using them in TB fashion or as accessories?

Thanks for the respond, Penguin.

As it comes to pullups.. Man.. don't I love WPU? But. IMHO.. I always feel that it can get complicated when I go heavy consistently for a long while. (And I do know that from my experience). There are so many things to keep in check: lower back, shoulders, elbows, scapular area to name a few. That's why I think BW pull-ups is a safer way to go. Ladders are good for example.

I am on my 9th week of OP with WPU and my left elbow/scapula is getting really pissed at me. So, I might give it a rest for the next block by switching to some other type of pulling. I want to get back to WPU in 2-3 of months, though. Something like that. Just shuffling things around as you need..
Grip is another angle. I keep switching between parallel grip and angled grip for chins. I don't do strict pull-ups anymore. Just for a shoulder sake.

Sumo is a great way to pull iron from the ground. Shorter range of motion and more forgiving on the lower back. But I bet you will irritate your hips if you stick with it for a long time. Everyone is different, though. I was doing Sumo before I strained the hamstrings. I might get back to Sumo I want to get back to it!

The problem I have with RDL's is that it is not too safe with lower reps (you are right) and the grip can be your limitation. And I hate using straps. It would feel weird to RDL with mixed grip, wouldn't it? Why don't you like block pulls? Rack pulls are very different movement than block pulls, IMHO. Block pulls give you almost natural DL feel. My best experience was with 2.5in block pulls. Just using wood on the floor. I might give it a try with OP in the future. But still I would keep it once a week or so.

Do you have access to Football or Swiss Bar? It is completely different experience with benching. Friendly on the shoulders. The only difference is "log press" feel and you need to get comfortable with having that in your hands. Another great option is push-ups with resistance bands. It can get really really challenging with thicker bands. You can play with hand position and it can be somewhat similar to the benching if you use push-up bars. I love it.

I've used unilateral movements a lot prior to TB. As main movements when I wasn't able to use barbells. And as accessories when i used bars. I think it is underrated nowadays. You can go very heavy with it and you train core, stabilization and balance at the same time. You'd be surprised with the results. Also, it is safer on the upper back. I bet it will contribute to the progression with the compounds. I think that running custer with unilateral movements for 1 block once/year is a great idea. I will try to do that.

Bulgarian splits push your leg strength to another level. You have to balance yourself to be able to lunge deep and keep your whole body mechanics in check. You can do goblet versions with KB/DB or BB/cross-gripped. I treat Bulgarian lunge as advanced squat variations. You will feel all your leg muscles involved. And I can say almost the same about unilateral DB bench press. I like incline version. Don't feel much for the flat bench. You address all pressing muscles along with core stabilizers. And you can play with hand position to give it different flavors.

Just my personal experience.. Everyone is different but I enjoy the discussion

[J-Madd]

I took a bunch of pictures of videos of myself pulling heavy last year to get a sense of my form. I found that no matter what I was rounding my lower lumbar at the initiation point of the motion whenever I had any kind of real weight on the bar. That's bad. I played around putting the weights on mats, and I found that even just two .75" mats under the plates made a massive difference for my lumbar position on the initial pull. I have always found rack pulls to take more than they give -- I just end up loading more weight on bar and beating the crap out of myself. Pulling form 1.5-2" of mats doesn't make that much difference for how much weight I"m handling, but it puts me in a much safer position. This isn't an "over 40" thing, but a "Jim Madden's flawed orthopedics" thing. As I come back to the DL in my MS cluster, I'm going to pull from the mats. So I guess I can't show off about how much I can DL anymore (because I'm not pulling from the deck), but that's fine because I'll probably be able to walk up right too.

[Barkadion]

I took a bunch of pictures of videos of myself pulling heavy last year to get a sense of my form. I found that no matter what I was rounding my lower lumbar at the initiation point of the motion whenever I had any kind of real weight on the bar. That's bad. I played around putting the weights on mats, and I found that even just two .75" mats under the plates made a massive difference for my lumbar position on the initial pull. I have always found rack pulls to take more than they give -- I just end up loading more weight on bar and beating the crap out of myself. Pulling form 1.5-2" of mats doesn't make that much difference for how much weight I"m handling, but it puts me in a much safer position. This isn't an "over 40" thing, but a "Jim Madden's flawed orthopedics" thing. As I come back to the DL in my MS cluster, I'm going to pull from the mats. So I guess I can't show off about how much I can DL anymore (because I'm not pulling from the deck), but that's fine because I'll probably be able to walk up right too.

Same here. Mats pulls = block pulls. There is even a program/approach that advocates that.

https://www.t-nation.com/training/new-way-to-deadlift

[TBPenguin]

Bark, I don't see any reason to back off on the weighted pullups. I can still do them very heavy. I think if the reps are done well, this is not a risky lift. I will grant you that acceptable grip options may change as we age. My shoulder is not thrilled with palms away, but palms facing and parallel are fine. But that is just me.

I've almost always done conventional DL, but have started experimenting with sumo to see if it is less risky. For me at least, rack pulls are worse. Not sure RDLs are good at the lower reps.

Benching is something I see going away over time. It just takes more and more efforts to make it not bother the shoulders.

I'm interested in your experiences using the unilateral stuff, both legs and upper body. You've commented on both the incline bench and Bulgarian splits as effective - in what way? How do you think they compare to the barbell lifts? HAve you been using them in TB fashion or as accessories?

Thanks for the respond, Penguin.

As it comes to pullups.. Man.. don't I love WPU? But. IMHO.. I always feel that it can get complicated when I go heavy consistently for a long while. (And I do know that from my experience). There are so many things to keep in check: lower back, shoulders, elbows, scapular area to name a few. That's why I think BW pull-ups is a safer way to go. Ladders are good for example.

I am on my 9th week of OP with WPU and my left elbow/scapula is getting really pissed at me. So, I might give it a rest for the next block by switching to some other type of pulling. I want to get back to WPU in 2-3 of months, though. Something like that. Just shuffling things around as you need..
Grip is another angle. I keep switching between parallel grip and angled grip for chins. I don't do strict pull-ups anymore. Just for a shoulder sake.

Sumo is a great way to pull iron from the ground. Shorter range of motion and more forgiving on the lower back. But I bet you will irritate your hips if you stick with it for a long time. Everyone is different, though. I was doing Sumo before I strained the hamstrings. I might get back to Sumo I want to get back to it!

The problem I have with RDL's is that it is not too safe with lower reps (you are right) and the grip can be your limitation. And I hate using straps. It would feel weird to RDL with mixed grip, wouldn't it? Why don't you like block pulls? Rack pulls are very different movement than block pulls, IMHO. Block pulls give you almost natural DL feel. My best experience was with 2.5in block pulls. Just using wood on the floor. I might give it a try with OP in the future. But still I would keep it once a week or so.

Do you have access to Football or Swiss Bar? It is completely different experience with benching. Friendly on the shoulders. The only difference is "log press" feel and you need to get comfortable with having that in your hands. Another great option is push-ups with resistance bands. It can get really really challenging with thicker bands. You can play with hand position and it can be somewhat similar to the benching if you use push-up bars. I love it.

I've used unilateral movements a lot prior to TB. As main movements when I wasn't able to use barbells. And as accessories when i used bars. I think it is underrated nowadays. You can go very heavy with it and you train core, stabilization and balance at the same time. You'd be surprised with the results. Also, it is safer on the upper back. I bet it will contribute to the progression with the compounds. I think that running custer with unilateral movements for 1 block once/year is a great idea. I will try to do that.

Bulgarian splits push your leg strength to another level. You have to balance yourself to be able to lunge deep and keep your whole body mechanics in check. You can do goblet versions with KB/DB or BB/cross-gripped. I treat Bulgarian lunge as advanced squat variations. You will feel all your leg muscles involved. And I can say almost the same about unilateral DB bench press. I like incline version. Don't feel much for the flat bench. You address all pressing muscles along with core stabilizers. And you can play with hand position to give it different flavors.

Just my personal experience.. Everyone is different but I enjoy the discussion

Bark, I didn't say anything about block pulls. I think they are good. Rack pulls is what I don't like.

I've never had a chance to try any of the different bars you describe. Maybe someday.

I tried the unilateral incline press today, not really hard, just to get a feel for it. I could see giving it a run at some point. I've tried Bulgarian split squats int eh past but have never stuck with them long enough to make any real progress.

I think you've hit on a big point for the After 40ers, and that is to change the lift versions every now and then. At least spread the damage out.

Thanks for sharing so much of your experiences.

[DocOctagon]

Another interesting topic is exercise selection for lifters after 40. . . .
What do you guys think?

I don't know, man, I'm still liking the classic big 4: low bar back squat, bench, traditional deadlift, OHP.

If I had a specific injury that made it difficult to do one of these well, I'd consider a switch. As it is, I think doing these well actually helps me avoid injury in life and sports.

With you 100% on this Wall.

[Gerryatric]

1st days BB done the battle between ego and ability has been resolved . Ego lost in a spectacular fashion

[Barkadion]

1st days BB done the battle between ego and ability has been resolved . Ego lost in a spectacular fashion

Let's celebrate that by building egoless base

[Gerryatric]

Lol better that than a baseless ego . I know its the first step in a very long journey but I am looking forward to it

[AndyGog]

As a beginner, this thread is giving me a lot of motivation!

I'm just planning my first, 12 week Operator block having just read the 3rd Edition of TB.
My biggest problem is that I can only do about 2 chin ups as an absolute maximum. Is there any benefit to doing 3x1 chin ups, 3 times a week?

The obvious alternatives at my gym are an assisted pull up machine or lat pull downs. Or I could just do rows or deadlifts instead.

I appreciate that I need to do chin ups to be able to do chin ups, but as I'm lifting for health and to make sure I'm strong going into older age (I'm 44), maybe I don't desperately need to do chin ups.

Thanks in advance for anyone's opinions.

[TBPenguin]

As a beginner, this thread is giving me a lot of motivation!

I'm just planning my first, 12 week Operator block having just read the 3rd Edition of TB.
My biggest problem is that I can only do about 2 chin ups as an absolute maximum. Is there any benefit to doing 3x1 chin ups, 3 times a week?

The obvious alternatives at my gym are an assisted pull up machine or lat pull downs. Or I could just do rows or deadlifts instead.

I appreciate that I need to do chin ups to be able to do chin ups, but as I'm lifting for health and to make sure I'm strong going into older age (I'm 44), maybe I don't desperately need to do chin ups.

Thanks in advance for anyone's opinions.

Andy while you don't desperately need to do any lift, I would let discouragement guide you. There are quite a number of guys older than you that I've seen go from zero chinups to doing chinups with weight. If you can only do 2 now, maybe try doing just one whenever you get the chance, like between sets of your other lifts, or get a doorway chinup bar. Just stick to the idea of no struggling on any rep. Or build up to them with pulldowns, not ideal but it will work, that is what I've seen most guys do. There are probably some special programs that I don't know about, but between pulldowns and some 1 rep chinups you'll get there.