Base Building - How long is a 3x20 SE supposed to take?

[jzt]

As it turns out, I wasn't too familiar with the conditioning book, I initially only bought the strength training one because that's always the area I gravitated to. I ran 2 blocks of Operator with random conditioning when I had time for it (nothing serious).

I finally bought the Conditioning book after someone insisted I should; it opened a whole new facet of fitness I had ignored for more than a decade. Turns out my cardio/conditioning is absolute shit.

I tested my 3K time and it turned out to be 19:05 @ an average pace of 9.2 km/h. I then laid out the whole BB template in excel, where I keep track of all my workouts.

2 questions:

a) In the book, the template says to do 30 mins, 40 mins, etc. of E training. As a complete newb, I plan on swapping time goals, for distance goals (for example, instead of 30 mins, go for 3K). The logic is to slowly build up since I have zero foundation and I feel that if I go for time, I might just drag my feet. If it's a distance, it's a more tangible goal. I did research on running forums, and the consensus seems to be that complete beginner should strive for distance first.

b) I did my first SE session tonight (3x20). My cluster is KB Swings (40lbs), Push Ups (BW), KB Squats (40lbs), Inverted Ring Rows (BW), Reverse Hypers (BW) and AB Roller (BW). It took me 27:02 mins. I had to take breaks during it and I actually laid on my back on the ground afterwards for a good 20 mins, absolutely done. Should the first session be this brutal? I mean, am I even gonna make it out of the 3x50 in only 5 weeks?!

[Ginjadave]

The First time I ran base I was in a very similar boat, it destroyed me. I made it through but I was so unconditioned and untrained that it was grim. Pushups were the ones that killed me, I was literally grinding out 1-2 at at time by the end of a set, I think
The 3 x50 at the end took me something like 1hr 20

I’ve since switched to alpha circuits when I run base (alpha is in TB1 3rd edition I believe) and I start week 1 with 10 reps then up it 5 reps a week to finish week 5 before transitioning to the MS weeks.

I find my motivation and enjoyment is waaay higher running alpha, im sure there’s a performance difference by the end but I’ll take whatever diffeeence there is for 8 weeks I enjoy rather than dears.

[Ginjadave]

The First time I ran base I was in a very similar boat, it destroyed me. I made it through but I was so unconditioned and untrained that it was grim. Pushups were the ones that killed me, I was literally grinding out 1-2 at at time by the end of a set, I think
The 3 x50 at the end took me something like 1hr 20

I’ve since switched to alpha circuits when I run base (alpha is in TB1 3rd edition I believe) and I start week 1 with 10 reps then up it 5 reps a week to finish week 5 before transitioning to the MS weeks.

I find my motivation and enjoyment is waaay higher running alpha, im sure there’s a performance difference by the end but I’ll take whatever diffeeence there is for 8 weeks I enjoy rather than dears.

[Maxrip13]

As it turns out, I wasn't too familiar with the conditioning book, I initially only bought the strength training one because that's always the area I gravitated to. I ran 2 blocks of Operator with random conditioning when I had time for it (nothing serious).

I finally bought the Conditioning book after someone insisted I should; it opened a whole new facet of fitness I had ignored for more than a decade. Turns out my cardio/conditioning is absolute shit.

I tested my 3K time and it turned out to be 19:05 @ an average pace of 9.2 km/h. I then laid out the whole BB template in excel, where I keep track of all my workouts.

2 questions:

a) In the book, the template says to do 30 mins, 40 mins, etc. of E training. As a complete newb, I plan on swapping time goals, for distance goals (for example, instead of 30 mins, go for 3K). The logic is to slowly build up since I have zero foundation and I feel that if I go for time, I might just drag my feet. If it's a distance, it's a more tangible goal. I did research on running forums, and the consensus seems to be that complete beginner should strive for distance first.

I would recommend sticking with the time goals over specific distance for base building. The goal of base building is make systemic adaption to your cardiovascular system. 30 mins of LSS in the 120-150bpm rate is the minimum to achieve these changes. It doesn’t matter if you have to run/walk to stay in this heart rate range. As an example my easy 30 min LSS run works out to about 3.5-4km anyway. As you get above 60-90min there are more specific changes. Time is better for base building and you can start aiming for specific distances after you build that base.
b) I did my first SE session tonight (3x20). My cluster is KB Swings (40lbs), Push Ups (BW), KB Squats (40lbs), Inverted Ring Rows (BW), Reverse Hypers (BW) and AB Roller (BW). It took me 27:02 mins. I had to take breaks during it and I actually laid on my back on the ground afterwards for a good 20 mins, absolutely done. Should the first session be this brutal? I mean, am I even gonna make it out of the 3x50 in only 5 weeks?!

If you have been in the 5 rep range for ages it will definitely feel hard. 5x5 is only 25 reps, where as you just did 3x20 for a total of 60 reps for that exercise. You also have a pretty big cluster with 6 exercises so you are doing a lot of volume. You always have the alpha options and there is nothing wrong with using them. Base building is to set you up for harder training in the future. These are my opinions anyway.

[ml1985]

I'm new to this kind of training, so take it with a grain of salt. I'm currently in my first BB cycle and my runs are much slower than when I tested my 1.5 mile run (8.20 min/mile vs. 12:00 min/mile). So I would also say to run for time and not distance, as hormonal and physiological adaptations are different when your heart rate reaches different thresholds.

As for SE, I'm using an even easier version of Alpha circuits, as I'm upping the reps only by 5 per week. So in BB, I'm doing 10/15/20/25. Next time I'll be doing SE (either Fighter Bangkok, Green protocol or another BB), I'll try to reach higher reps. Unless you have specific goals with a time constraint, there is no need to kill yourself right now. You'll have a lifetime to get better. I'd say it's better to build momentum than to be unmotivated because you're always failing on your rep goals.

[close_fox]

As it turns out, I wasn't too familiar with the conditioning book, I initially only bought the strength training one because that's always the area I gravitated to. I ran 2 blocks of Operator with random conditioning when I had time for it (nothing serious).

I finally bought the Conditioning book after someone insisted I should; it opened a whole new facet of fitness I had ignored for more than a decade. Turns out my cardio/conditioning is absolute shit.

I tested my 3K time and it turned out to be 19:05 @ an average pace of 9.2 km/h. I then laid out the whole BB template in excel, where I keep track of all my workouts.

2 questions:

a) In the book, the template says to do 30 mins, 40 mins, etc. of E training. As a complete newb, I plan on swapping time goals, for distance goals (for example, instead of 30 mins, go for 3K). The logic is to slowly build up since I have zero foundation and I feel that if I go for time, I might just drag my feet. If it's a distance, it's a more tangible goal. I did research on running forums, and the consensus seems to be that complete beginner should strive for distance first.

I too struggled with the switch from distance to time. It's especially rough if you are used to running for distance as a goal. But your heart doesn't get more efficient because you ran a certain distance. The point is to train your heart at the correct BPM for the prescribed time. Also, focusing on distance will give you an "easy" way out. You might be tempted to get pick up the pace and get it over with (reach the goal distance). This will take you out of (above) the correct BPM. Conversely, the minutes are what they are. There is no short cut for time. So, to me, going for distance during BB would be an unnecessary complication.

b) I did my first SE session tonight (3x20). My cluster is KB Swings (40lbs), Push Ups (BW), KB Squats (40lbs), Inverted Ring Rows (BW), Reverse Hypers (BW) and AB Roller (BW). It took me 27:02 mins. I had to take breaks during it and I actually laid on my back on the ground afterwards for a good 20 mins, absolutely done. Should the first session be this brutal? I mean, am I even gonna make it out of the 3x50 in only 5 weeks?!

3x20 shouldn't take that long, and you shouldn't be that smoked after it. Here's what I would do. 40lbs seems really heavy for swings and squats during BB. Move to bodyweight squats and very light swings. Drop Reverse Hypers (swings are already hitting your posterior chain). Ab roller seems a little high intensity also. Why not crunches? Are push-ups too heavy? Move to another push exercise that is lighter. You should be clicking off reps. Maybe taking breaks and getting right back to it. The TB2 text says resistance should be a token weight (or something to that effect) & the goal is to complete the reps in the shortest possible time. I read either in the text or on this forum: when in doubt, go lighter.

[VenomousCoffee]

As it turns out, I wasn't too familiar with the conditioning book, I initially only bought the strength training one because that's always the area I gravitated to. I ran 2 blocks of Operator with random conditioning when I had time for it (nothing serious).

Here's my two cents. I came to TB from a lifetime of heavy lifting and little to no conditioning work, and also I'm mid-40s and I'm a teacher, so evaluate all of this accordingly.

As others have said, you really want to measure your E work in terms of time, not distance. I've been doing this for almost a year, and I just now started running on a track, and only sometimes do I count the laps. If you don't have to pass a professional test, it really doesn't matter.

On SE, I'd say that if 3x20 left you lying on your back, then yeah, that 3x50 week is going to be hell. When I ran BB (my 2nd, but my first with SE) this spring, the 3x20 week was easy (meaning, doable, not actually easy) but 3x50 just killed me. I'd strongly recommend switching to Alpha (or just cutting the reps in half or something similar). I'll add that I really liked the circuit I used: front squat, OHP, back squat, row, and RDL. I used a fixed-weight 40lb barbell for the OHP and a regular one at 65lbs for everything else. I found it had a good flow, etc.