Finishing 2nd block of Op, want feedback on new cluster for 6 week block

[wcu25rs]

Like the title says, at the end of this week, I'll be finishing up my 2nd 12 week block of Op/Black and wanting a bit of feedback on where to go from here. FWIW, my TB experience has been Strength First Base Building, week off, 12 week Op/Black, week off, 12 week Op/Black...ive used the same cluster for every lifting block which is SQ/Bench/WPU and 3 sets of DL's once a week. It timed out perfect as I'll be leaving for vacation Sunday, so all next week will be recovery with mobility, and some walking/jogging on the beach everyday.

Ive been leaning toward the idea of doing a new cluster for a 6 week block. I'm thinking about doing a Front SQ/OHP/Weighted Dips cluster with Heavy Carries of some type(either yoke or farmers carry) 1 day a week instead of DL's. After the 6 weeks, I'll do a retest of SQ/Bench/WPU/Deads(after first block of OP, I did forced progression, so this will be the first Ive retested since i got my numbers to start strength first BB), and jump back into Op for another 12 week block. Any feedback is welcome. Was just curious if anyone else threw in short 6 week blocks of different stuff in between their main focus blocks every now and then.

[VenomousCoffee]

Lots of S&C coaches sing the praises of dips, but I'm curious, what's the thinking behind leaving out a traditional back exercise? I'd worry about imbalance.

[wcu25rs]

Lots of S&C coaches sing the praises of dips, but I'm curious, what's the thinking behind leaving out a traditional back exercise? I'd worry about imbalance.

I've been hitting DL's every week since starting BB....so basically 32 weeks(of course I wasnt new to the deadlift by any means when starting TB, that's just how long Ive been doing TB), so I doubt 6 weeks without a dedicated back exercise like a DL, or a variation of a DL, will cause an imbalance. You could argue that Front Squats hit the back a bit as it requires a good strong back to stay back on your heels. Plus, I mentioned heavier carries, which requires picking that weight up. However, I have thought about doing Clean and Press instead of OHP, just to still get a bit of back workout, while still getting overhead work in. But yeah, I'm looking forward to weighted dips. I'm loving WPU and have seen great improvements from it, so hoping to achieve similar results with weighted dips.

[jzt]

Like the title says, at the end of this week, I'll be finishing up my 2nd 12 week block of Op/Black and wanting a bit of feedback on where to go from here. FWIW, my TB experience has been Strength First Base Building, week off, 12 week Op/Black, week off, 12 week Op/Black...ive used the same cluster for every lifting block which is SQ/Bench/WPU and 3 sets of DL's once a week. It timed out perfect as I'll be leaving for vacation Sunday, so all next week will be recovery with mobility, and some walking/jogging on the beach everyday.

Ive been leaning toward the idea of doing a new cluster for a 6 week block. I'm thinking about doing a Front SQ/OHP/Weighted Dips cluster with Heavy Carries of some type(either yoke or farmers carry) 1 day a week instead of DL's. After the 6 weeks, I'll do a retest of SQ/Bench/WPU/Deads(after first block of OP, I did forced progression, so this will be the first Ive retested since i got my numbers to start strength first BB), and jump back into Op for another 12 week block. Any feedback is welcome. Was just curious if anyone else threw in short 6 week blocks of different stuff in between their main focus blocks every now and then.

The first part of your post is great, good job for sticking to everything for that long, Im sure the progress has been great.

The second part, that cluster makes no sense. The logic behind 3 lifts clusters (and why the big 3 in powerlifter make no sense imo) is to have a lower body movement, a pull and a push. OHP and Dips both are push, you have no pulling motion. As for the deadlift, its much more similar to a squat than it is to a chin up.

If you are yearning to switch it up for a bit, switch for SE circuits, preferably Alpha if youre new to it. I use KB squats, KB swings, Ring Rows, Push Ups, AB Roller and Rev Hypers. 3x10 (or even 2x10) progressing to 3x20 and going for total time. That will be a nice change of pace for you and maybe take care of some hidden weaknesses. I suggest doing this for 3-6 weeks and then going back to Operator + Black for another 12 weeks.

[wcu25rs]

Like the title says, at the end of this week, I'll be finishing up my 2nd 12 week block of Op/Black and wanting a bit of feedback on where to go from here. FWIW, my TB experience has been Strength First Base Building, week off, 12 week Op/Black, week off, 12 week Op/Black...ive used the same cluster for every lifting block which is SQ/Bench/WPU and 3 sets of DL's once a week. It timed out perfect as I'll be leaving for vacation Sunday, so all next week will be recovery with mobility, and some walking/jogging on the beach everyday.

Ive been leaning toward the idea of doing a new cluster for a 6 week block. I'm thinking about doing a Front SQ/OHP/Weighted Dips cluster with Heavy Carries of some type(either yoke or farmers carry) 1 day a week instead of DL's. After the 6 weeks, I'll do a retest of SQ/Bench/WPU/Deads(after first block of OP, I did forced progression, so this will be the first Ive retested since i got my numbers to start strength first BB), and jump back into Op for another 12 week block. Any feedback is welcome. Was just curious if anyone else threw in short 6 week blocks of different stuff in between their main focus blocks every now and then.

The first part of your post is great, good job for sticking to everything for that long, Im sure the progress has been great.

The second part, that cluster makes no sense. The logic behind 3 lifts clusters (and why the big 3 in powerlifter make no sense imo) is to have a lower body movement, a pull and a push. OHP and Dips both are push, you have no pulling motion. As for the deadlift, its much more similar to a squat than it is to a chin up.

If you are yearning to switch it up for a bit, switch for SE circuits, preferably Alpha if youre new to it. I use KB squats, KB swings, Ring Rows, Push Ups, AB Roller and Rev Hypers. 3x10 (or even 2x10) progressing to 3x20 and going for total time. That will be a nice change of pace for you and maybe take care of some hidden weaknesses. I suggest doing this for 3-6 weeks and then going back to Operator + Black for another 12 weeks.

I guess the progress has been great....I'll know when I retest. The last few weeks, Ive been struggling with squats due to a strain in both my flexors/groin area. Not bad enough to where I couldnt squat, but enough to where it limited my drive out of the bottom, resulting in the weight feeling heavier than it should....felt like I was going backwards. But last week and this week, after lots of targeted mobility, the inflammation is almost gone, so things are starting to feel back to normal.

But yea, good advice on the no pull thing. Didnt really realize that at the time. I could just stick with WPU instead of Weighted Dips, or utilize the clean and press instead of OHP, or even do heavy rows. The clean would be a lighter pull obviously, but over just 6 weeks, it would probably be enough.

I'll look into the SE block as well. The good thing is, Ive got a week off with lots of downtime to go over options. Thanks for the feedback!

[jzt]

Like the title says, at the end of this week, I'll be finishing up my 2nd 12 week block of Op/Black and wanting a bit of feedback on where to go from here. FWIW, my TB experience has been Strength First Base Building, week off, 12 week Op/Black, week off, 12 week Op/Black...ive used the same cluster for every lifting block which is SQ/Bench/WPU and 3 sets of DL's once a week. It timed out perfect as I'll be leaving for vacation Sunday, so all next week will be recovery with mobility, and some walking/jogging on the beach everyday.

Ive been leaning toward the idea of doing a new cluster for a 6 week block. I'm thinking about doing a Front SQ/OHP/Weighted Dips cluster with Heavy Carries of some type(either yoke or farmers carry) 1 day a week instead of DL's. After the 6 weeks, I'll do a retest of SQ/Bench/WPU/Deads(after first block of OP, I did forced progression, so this will be the first Ive retested since i got my numbers to start strength first BB), and jump back into Op for another 12 week block. Any feedback is welcome. Was just curious if anyone else threw in short 6 week blocks of different stuff in between their main focus blocks every now and then.

The first part of your post is great, good job for sticking to everything for that long, Im sure the progress has been great.

The second part, that cluster makes no sense. The logic behind 3 lifts clusters (and why the big 3 in powerlifter make no sense imo) is to have a lower body movement, a pull and a push. OHP and Dips both are push, you have no pulling motion. As for the deadlift, its much more similar to a squat than it is to a chin up.

If you are yearning to switch it up for a bit, switch for SE circuits, preferably Alpha if youre new to it. I use KB squats, KB swings, Ring Rows, Push Ups, AB Roller and Rev Hypers. 3x10 (or even 2x10) progressing to 3x20 and going for total time. That will be a nice change of pace for you and maybe take care of some hidden weaknesses. I suggest doing this for 3-6 weeks and then going back to Operator + Black for another 12 weeks.

I guess the progress has been great....I'll know when I retest. The last few weeks, Ive been struggling with squats due to a strain in both my flexors/groin area. Not bad enough to where I couldnt squat, but enough to where it limited my drive out of the bottom, resulting in the weight feeling heavier than it should....felt like I was going backwards. But last week and this week, after lots of targeted mobility, the inflammation is almost gone, so things are starting to feel back to normal.

But yea, good advice on the no pull thing. Didnt really realize that at the time. I could just stick with WPU instead of Weighted Dips, or utilize the clean and press instead of OHP, or even do heavy rows. The clean would be a lighter pull obviously, but over just 6 weeks, it would probably be enough.

I'll look into the SE block as well. The good thing is, Ive got a week off with lots of downtime to go over options. Thanks for the feedback!

If I were you, I would just do the 3 weeks of programmed SE (like I said I strongly suggest Alpha circuits initially) and then go back to Operator with either WPUs, WDips, Squats or WPUs, OHP and Squats.


A quick note regarding squats; they are a great exercise, I dont debate that. That being said, the only lifting injuries Ive ever had in 10+ years were from Conv Deadlifts and Back Squats, and yes I was using good form. These are just very taxing and easy to mess up movements.

I did my first operator block using a similar cluster to yours: OHP, WCUs and Trap Bar Deadlifts. I had never felt better in my life strength wise with zero nagging injuries. I tend switched to OHP (alternating BP), WCUs, Squats 3x per week and DL 1x week. I was doing ok, but a lot of minor injuries started flaring up. The point is, unless youre a competitive powerlifter, there are tons of other options. Personally Im back to Trap Bar Deadlifts and Im doing KB squats in my SE, best of both worlds imo.

[wcu25rs]

The first part of your post is great, good job for sticking to everything for that long, Im sure the progress has been great.

The second part, that cluster makes no sense. The logic behind 3 lifts clusters (and why the big 3 in powerlifter make no sense imo) is to have a lower body movement, a pull and a push. OHP and Dips both are push, you have no pulling motion. As for the deadlift, its much more similar to a squat than it is to a chin up.

If you are yearning to switch it up for a bit, switch for SE circuits, preferably Alpha if youre new to it. I use KB squats, KB swings, Ring Rows, Push Ups, AB Roller and Rev Hypers. 3x10 (or even 2x10) progressing to 3x20 and going for total time. That will be a nice change of pace for you and maybe take care of some hidden weaknesses. I suggest doing this for 3-6 weeks and then going back to Operator + Black for another 12 weeks.

I guess the progress has been great....I'll know when I retest. The last few weeks, Ive been struggling with squats due to a strain in both my flexors/groin area. Not bad enough to where I couldnt squat, but enough to where it limited my drive out of the bottom, resulting in the weight feeling heavier than it should....felt like I was going backwards. But last week and this week, after lots of targeted mobility, the inflammation is almost gone, so things are starting to feel back to normal.

But yea, good advice on the no pull thing. Didnt really realize that at the time. I could just stick with WPU instead of Weighted Dips, or utilize the clean and press instead of OHP, or even do heavy rows. The clean would be a lighter pull obviously, but over just 6 weeks, it would probably be enough.

I'll look into the SE block as well. The good thing is, Ive got a week off with lots of downtime to go over options. Thanks for the feedback!

If I were you, I would just do the 3 weeks of programmed SE (like I said I strongly suggest Alpha circuits initially) and then go back to Operator with either WPUs, WDips, Squats or WPUs, OHP and Squats.


A quick note regarding squats; they are a great exercise, I dont debate that. That being said, the only lifting injuries Ive ever had in 10+ years were from Conv Deadlifts and Back Squats, and yes I was using good form. These are just very taxing and easy to mess up movements.

I did my first operator block using a similar cluster to yours: OHP, WCUs and Trap Bar Deadlifts. I had never felt better in my life strength wise with zero nagging injuries. I tend switched to OHP (alternating BP), WCUs, Squats 3x per week and DL 1x week. I was doing ok, but a lot of minor injuries started flaring up. The point is, unless youre a competitive powerlifter, there are tons of other options. Personally Im back to Trap Bar Deadlifts and Im doing KB squats in my SE, best of both worlds imo.

noted about the 3 week SE block. Might end up going that route. I kinda didnt pay too much attention to the SE stuff(except for what was programmed in BB) due to using CF for some of my HIC's, and you usually get a fair amount of that in CF. But a dedicated block would be kinda fun.

As for Squats, my injury didnt come from squats. I'm 99% certain it came from doing a hill sprint session quite a few weeks back. I remember in one sprint feeling something "giving" a bit in both flexors, but not bad enough to pay too much attention to it until they both were aggravated the next day and then for a few weeks after. Ive cut the hill sprints out for the last three weeks, and with extra mobility work, theyre almost back to normal.

Ive recently incorporated trap bar deads in this last 12 week OP block(was dealing with some disc issues from out of line hips, so the lower shear factor on TB deads helped some), and Ive really enjoyed doing them. I'll probably go back to conventional at some point, but Im in no hurry. On the cluster you mentioned of OHP, WCU's, and TB Deads, did you treat deads like a main cluster lift and do it 3 times a week? If so, that sounds like a fun cluster.

[jzt]

On the cluster you mentioned of OHP, WCU's, and TB Deads, did you treat deads like a main cluster lift and do it 3 times a week? If so, that sounds like a fun cluster.

Yes it was just OHP, WCUs and TB Deads, using the Operator template. I was doing assistance, SE, E, etc. like I felt, same for mobility. That was for Block 1, I made pretty decent gains.

I have a home gym, so the setup is really easy, I just leave the weights as they are and they are ready to go for the next workout, and can all be supersetted since they all use different bars.

For the second Block I mixed Greyskull and Operator, it was mostly an experiment. I wanted to reintroduce a bit of variety, in hindsight I mightve been better off just running ZULU as prescribed, but overall I gained strength, which was the main goal.

Now after 3 weeks of free training/vacations Im started over a new Block, back with TBDL, OHP and WCUs with 2 HIC, 1 E and 1 SE per week.

[wcu25rs]

On the cluster you mentioned of OHP, WCU's, and TB Deads, did you treat deads like a main cluster lift and do it 3 times a week? If so, that sounds like a fun cluster.

Yes it was just OHP, WCUs and TB Deads, using the Operator template. I was doing assistance, SE, E, etc. like I felt, same for mobility. That was for Block 1, I made pretty decent gains.

I have a home gym, so the setup is really easy, I just leave the weights as they are and they are ready to go for the next workout, and can all be supersetted since they all use different bars.

For the second Block I mixed Greyskull and Operator, it was mostly an experiment. I wanted to reintroduce a bit of variety, in hindsight I mightve been better off just running ZULU as prescribed, but overall I gained strength, which was the main goal.

Now after 3 weeks of free training/vacations Im started over a new Block, back with TBDL, OHP and WCUs with 2 HIC, 1 E and 1 SE per week.

I'm definitely gonna be incorporating this cluster, even if it's just a short block, sounds fun.

I'll actually be transitioning to Fighter/Green around fall and running it through spring during wildfire/prescribed burn season. I'm still digging OP/Black, but kinda looking forward to this change of pace later in the year.