Zulu / Operator hybrid?

[jzt]

As of now, ZULU has you doing typically 4 lifts, split into 2 sessions, done 4 times per week.

For example:

A: Squat + Bench
B: Deadlift + Press
A: Squat + Bench
B: Deadlift + Press

Operator has you doing 3 lifts per session, 3 times per week (*with the possibly to throw in deadlifts):

For example:
A: Bench + Squat + Chin Ups
A: Bench + Squat + Chin Ups
A: Bench + Squat + Chin Ups / (*Deadlift)

From what I read in the book, Operator is said to have a ''shelf life'' and mostly used for either ''newbs'' or tactical athletes looking for a simplistic strength approach. Once you get to certain levels of strength, it would logically become too taxing to (for example) Squat 400+ 3 times per week.

Would it be possible to mix ZULU and Operator for people looking to vary the lifts and lift 3 times per week?

A: Bench + Squat + Chin Ups
B: Press + Deadlift + Chin Ups
A: Bench + Squat + Chin Ups

And then repeat, without alternating. So you'd be squatting 2x per week, DL 1x, Bench 2x and Press 1x, while doing chin ups every session. This basically is the Swat cluster, but with a day where you swap 2 out of 3 lifts to avoid overuse.

Thoughts?

[claude512]

I have a vague idea that an A-B-A scheme was covered in one of the books... might be the Mass book which then goes with different rules.
There's also this:http://www.tacticalbarbell.com/operator-options/

In general I think this works well with the squat, alternating with DL (covered in the link above)
For the press I am not so sure... the press requires lots of reps/practice to improve, once a week will not likely get you anywhere. Me personally I'd rather focus on the press in it's own cycle, so I'd alternate a few cycles BP with a few cycles OHP, otherwise neither feel right

You could run it for 2 or so cycles and see if it works for you? At most you'd be less effective for 12 weeks, but you'll have gained further knowledge!

BTW OP doesn't have a shelf life per se... I/A allows for some intelligent modifications for people who know how to use them (Ageless Athlete Old Warhorse template makes very good use of the IA principles), but this applies to all templates (they all have I/A options). I wouldn't call it a shelf life, not necessarily everyone will need to use these options

[jzt]

I have a vague idea that an A-B-A scheme was covered in one of the books... might be the Mass book which then goes with different rules.
There's also this:http://www.tacticalbarbell.com/operator-options/

In general I think this works well with the squat, alternating with DL (covered in the link above)
For the press I am not so sure... the press requires lots of reps/practice to improve, once a week will not likely get you anywhere. Me personally I'd rather focus on the press in it's own cycle, so I'd alternate a few cycles BP with a few cycles OHP, otherwise neither feel right

You could run it for 2 or so cycles and see if it works for you? At most you'd be less effective for 12 weeks, but you'll have gained further knowledge!

BTW OP doesn't have a shelf life per se... I/A allows for some intelligent modifications for people who know how to use them (Ageless Athlete Old Warhorse template makes very good use of the IA principles), but this applies to all templates (they all have I/A options). I wouldn't call it a shelf life, not necessarily everyone will need to use these options

Thanks for the great reply. That article definitely helps out a lot.

The first part of the article ''Dump the Squat'' is 100% what I was looking for in terms of lower body, though. I just figured it could also be applied to Pressing.

Regarding the Bench and Press alternating experiment, I have tried it for a full block, Benching 2x per week and Pressing 1x per week. The Bench went up from 255 to 274 (+19) and the Press went from 193 to 192 (-1). The logic was that the Press would at least maintain itself (which I guess it did) while improving the Bench.

I know that logically, these 2 lifts would feed each other, but from what I've found over the years, they don't. If I specialize in the OHP, the Bench will fall back to around 250, which is my ''baseline'' and vice versa. For the Squat and Deadlift, the former helps the later, but not the other way around and Squatting 3x per week is pretty rough on the body, even though I'm not a world class squatter.

I have also considered doing 3x Bench and perhaps incorporating some overhead pressing in my conditioning work, but then again, this might be a bit too much volume pressing wise.

Would it be possible to do a ''Dump the Bench'' option? Same principle as the Dump the Squat, keeping in mind that for the trainee, it's more valuable to go +0 on Press and +15 on the Bench (for example) rather than go -10 on the Press and +30 on the Bench (even if in scenario B, the overall gain is greater). With Operator I/A, there would always be the option of doing up to 10 sets for whichever lift is trailing behind. Just food for thoughts... curious to hear what people have to say regarding this.

[Barkadion]

I have a vague idea that an A-B-A scheme was covered in one of the books... might be the Mass book which then goes with different rules.

It is in TB conditioning book. p.132.

One of the examples in the book is:

Day 1: SQ/BP (A)
Day 3: DL/OHP (B)
Day 5: SQ/BP (A)

I am thinking of giving it a try later this year.

Also, I think user mikhou does something very similar to it. You might check his log.

Cheers!

[mikhou]

Like Bark said, I do something similar, but slightly different. I run an 8-day week that incorporates an A/B/A/B, and I use Op I/A percentages. This is doable because I have a home gym. It looks like this:

Day 1 - MS - BP/SQ/WCU
Day 2 - HIC
Day 3 - MS - OHP/Barbell row/DL
Day 4 - Rest
Day 5 - MS - BP/SQ/WCU
Day 6 - HIC
Day 7 - Fun run incorporating OHP/Barbell row/KB swings
Day 8 - Rest
Repeat for another two 8-day "weeks," deload, and start again.

[jzt]

Like Bark said, I do something similar, but slightly different. I run an 8-day week that incorporates an A/B/A/B, and I use Op I/A percentages. This is doable because I have a home gym. It looks like this:

Day 1 - MS - BP/SQ/WCU
Day 2 - HIC
Day 3 - MS - OHP/Barbell row/DL
Day 4 - Rest
Day 5 - MS - BP/SQ/WCU
Day 6 - HIC
Day 7 - Fun run incorporating OHP/Barbell row/KB swings
Day 8 - Rest
Repeat for another two 8-day "weeks," deload, and start again.

Thinking of running something similar, except 3 MxS workouts per 7 days, hence the initial question. I have a home gym and a work gym as well, so my schedule is pretty flexbile.

I like how you swapped DL for KB swings on the second day, smart. From the 2 HIC session Im guessing you run Black? What kind of HIC workouts do you pick not to interfere too much with the heavy lifting?

Finally, you said you deload after the Operator I/A 3 weeks mini-blocks, what kind of deload do you do and is it really necessary every 3 weeks? I almost find the 5 x 70% week to be a built in deload (or reload, since its the first week).

[mikhou]

Like Bark said, I do something similar, but slightly different. I run an 8-day week that incorporates an A/B/A/B, and I use Op I/A percentages. This is doable because I have a home gym. It looks like this:

Day 1 - MS - BP/SQ/WCU
Day 2 - HIC
Day 3 - MS - OHP/Barbell row/DL
Day 4 - Rest
Day 5 - MS - BP/SQ/WCU
Day 6 - HIC
Day 7 - Fun run incorporating OHP/Barbell row/KB swings
Day 8 - Rest
Repeat for another two 8-day "weeks," deload, and start again.

Thinking of running something similar, except 3 MxS workouts per 7 days, hence the initial question. I have a home gym and a work gym as well, so my schedule is pretty flexbile.

I like how you swapped DL for KB swings on the second day, smart. From the 2 HIC session Im guessing you run Black? What kind of HIC workouts do you pick not to interfere too much with the heavy lifting?

Finally, you said you deload after the Operator I/A 3 weeks mini-blocks, what kind of deload do you do and is it really necessary every 3 weeks? I almost find the 5 x 70% week to be a built in deload (or reload, since its the first week).

jzt,

I'm by no means an expert programmer, but this has worked well for me. To answer your questions:

Yes, I stick to either sprinting-only workouts or a combo of jumping rope and burpees. But I do not do the push-ups with burpees for exactly the reason that you mentioned. While push-ups aren't overly taxing, if I get 100 burpees into a session, that's 100 push-ups in between days in which I did BP the day before and OHP the next day. So, I like to focus more on 600 meter resets, hill sprints, short hill sprints, and some other sprinting workouts that I used prior to TB.

Yes, I deload every fourth week. If you don't need it, then I wouldn't do it. I'm 45 yo, and I feel great, but I've found that deloading every 3rd week helps keep me fresh and doesn't hinder my progress. I like what Wendler says about the deload, "The point of the deload is to not have to take it when you need it, but rather to use it as a tool to NEVER need it." That's worked better for me than trying to train more in hopes that I don't need a deload week.

To add to what I said earlier, my fun run is an hour long. I run for six minutes and then I stop and do 1 of the programmed sets of either OHP/row/KB swings/Farmer's walks as programmed for that week at that week's percentages. Then I get back on and run until the next six minute timer goes off and do the next set and so on. So I can get in up to 9 resistance exercises sets within my fun run each week.

To better address your initial question, do I think that an A/B/A would work? I do. But you'll need to try it and find out if it works for you. This works well for me because I get to do some resistance work 4 times/week and I get to do some cardio 3 times/week and the Fun Run has really helped my work capacity.

[mikhou]

Like Bark said, I do something similar, but slightly different. I run an 8-day week that incorporates an A/B/A/B, and I use Op I/A percentages. This is doable because I have a home gym. It looks like this:

Day 1 - MS - BP/SQ/WCU
Day 2 - HIC
Day 3 - MS - OHP/Barbell row/DL
Day 4 - Rest
Day 5 - MS - BP/SQ/WCU
Day 6 - HIC
Day 7 - Fun run incorporating OHP/Barbell row/KB swings
Day 8 - Rest
Repeat for another two 8-day "weeks," deload, and start again.

Thinking of running something similar, except 3 MxS workouts per 7 days, hence the initial question. I have a home gym and a work gym as well, so my schedule is pretty flexbile.

I like how you swapped DL for KB swings on the second day, smart. From the 2 HIC session Im guessing you run Black? What kind of HIC workouts do you pick not to interfere too much with the heavy lifting?

Finally, you said you deload after the Operator I/A 3 weeks mini-blocks, what kind of deload do you do and is it really necessary every 3 weeks? I almost find the 5 x 70% week to be a built in deload (or reload, since its the first week).

jzt,

I realized that I didn't answer your question about what my deload looks like. Here it is:

Day 1 - Rest
Day 2 - 30 minute easy run
Day 3 - Rest
Day 4 - 5 reps at 40/50/60% on BP/SQ/DL
Day 5 - Rest
Day 6 - 30 minute easy run
Day 7 - REst

[jzt]

Thank you that clears it up.

Since I'll be running 3 weeks mini-Blocks of Operator I/A I'm not sure I'll use deloads every 3 weeks. In spite of using TM, I reduced the % from the original Op I/A by 5%.

For example:

Week 1: 65%
Week 2: 75%
Week 3: 85%
etc. then +1% over the board for the new block.