After 40 club

[Barkadion]

It is always hard to gauge the results of a program in isolation after just a couple blocks. It gets harder yet the older we get, or the longer we have been lifting. One thing I was taught to do was to summarize the basic data from each cycle completed for later analysis. I recently reviewed this for the last few years. Some caveats before trying to project from my analysis. One, all my lifting in the analysis, all my lifting using TB programs, has been as an age 55-59 class lifter. My experience is that the difference between lifting in that age class is more different from that of a 40-44 class lifter, than a 40-44 class lifter is from an under 30 lifter. So while you may be in the over 40 club, this may not translate to you. Two, before I ever tried any TB programs, I had 30 years of doing squats and deadlifts and the like heavy, so improvements can be hard to detect.

Anyway, over the last few years I have tried a multiple of programs intended for the over 40 club, even if not called that way. Also a bunch of TB. And a few programs that in retrospect were probably a bit stupid for me to try. But cutting to the chase, this is what worked best for me. When I say the best, I mean that (in retrospect) they gave the most certain, consistent results. In that respect they are the most proven (for me), out of all the programs tried.

For strength - TB Zulu I/A as given in the 2nd edition. I have not yet tried the most current version as given in the 3rd edition. If KB found it an improvement for his clients, it may be better yet. Zulu I/A has worked better for me than every variation of Operator I have tried. In addition my joints felt fresher with this.

For mass - Gladiator from the Mass Protocol book. This worked better for me than the Mass template that showed up in the 2nd edition of TB and Grey Man from the Mass Protocol book.

For conditioning - it was a non-TB program and really the reason it gave the best results on conditioning was that I only lifted twice per week and so did more conditioning. Honestly I don't think I have enough data to really judge this one.

Anyway, that's my experience, hope more over 40 club members will offer their experiences.

Thank you for your input, TBP. Appreciate it. Have you tried OP I/A from 2nd Conditioning edition - ABA setup?

[TBPenguin]

Thank you for your input, TBP. Appreciate it. Have you tried OP I/A from 2nd Conditioning edition - ABA setup?

Yes. I think I have tried every version of Operator that has come out since the 2nd edition of TB. I have not tried every variation that could be done with the DL mods (KB's article). But if it showed up in any of the books published after '16, it got at least one block.

[Barkadion]

Thank you for your input, TBP. Appreciate it. Have you tried OP I/A from 2nd Conditioning edition - ABA setup?

Yes. I think I have tried every version of Operator that has come out since the 2nd edition of TB. I have not tried every variation that could be done with the DL mods (KB's article). But if it showed up in any of the books published after '16, it got at least one block.

Thank you.

[mikhou]

Zulu I/A has worked better for me than every variation of Operator I have tried. In addition my joints felt fresher with this.

Hey, TBP. You made this statement above, and I'm just curious if you have an opinion as to why Zulu I/A has worked better for you than Op. I ask because I, too, have really enjoyed Zulu. I ran Op when I first came to TB and I'm not saying that I didn't like it. I just felt beat up which surprised me because the whole idea was to use sub-maximal lifting with frequency so that you remain fresh. Then I ran a BB block with Fighter and really made progress even while running BB. So I thought that maybe 2x/week was my sweet spot and ever since then I have run Zulu-ish cycles. I say Zulu-ish because I run a weird schedule that's only possible because I have a home gym, and I've been running it at Op I/A percentages. It looks like this.

Day 1 - MS - BP/SQ/WPU / DL x 1 set
Day 2 - HIC
Day 3 - MS - OHP/Barbell row / DL x 1 set
Day 4 - Rest
Day 5 - MS - BP/SQ/WPU / DL x 1 set
Day 6 - HIC
Day 7 - E/Fun run incorporating DB OHP, DB rows and KB swings
Day 8 - Rest

So I'm hitting everything 2x every 8 days (including the Fun Run). I also only ever re-test after running this for 4 cycles at ascending training maxes of 90%, 93%, 97%, and 100%. It sounds a lot more complicated than it is.

With the above being said, I always have this niggle in the back of my head, "Could I get stronger by going with Operator as opposed to this Zulu-ish cycle that I run?" Hence my question above about why you think that you have done better with Zulu vs. Op.

[TBPenguin]

Zulu I/A has worked better for me than every variation of Operator I have tried. In addition my joints felt fresher with this.

Hey, TBP. You made this statement above, and I'm just curious if you have an opinion as to why Zulu I/A has worked better for you than Op.

mikhou, I suspect that 2x per week for SQ is better at my stage than 3x/wk. Also the shorter sessions - two lifts a day may be better than three lifts a day. Also while I understand that Op should result in faster progress, for me trying for faster progress is perhaps easier to screw up. Just less room for error (food, sleep, conditioning load) at this stage? Maybe some of this could be overcome but it seems a good idea to go for the more sure thing. If I could make my progress 50% faster it would still be a glacial retreat.

I like the setup you've got, nice to have the flexibility of a home gym. If you are making progress it is hard to see any incentive to change it.

[mikhou]

Zulu I/A has worked better for me than every variation of Operator I have tried. In addition my joints felt fresher with this.

Hey, TBP. You made this statement above, and I'm just curious if you have an opinion as to why Zulu I/A has worked better for you than Op.

mikhou, I suspect that 2x per week for SQ is better at my stage than 3x/wk. Also the shorter sessions - two lifts a day may be better than three lifts a day. Also while I understand that Op should result in faster progress, for me trying for faster progress is perhaps easier to screw up. Just less room for error (food, sleep, conditioning load) at this stage? Maybe some of this could be overcome but it seems a good idea to go for the more sure thing. If I could make my progress 50% faster it would still be a glacial retreat.

I like the setup you've got, nice to have the flexibility of a home gym. If you are making progress it is hard to see any incentive to change it.

I appreciate your thoughts. I am making slow progress, and honestly that's fine with me at this point. Being a well-rounded, healthy athlete at 46 yo is more important to me than breaking any records. I've got a decent BP (1.5xbw), SQ (2xbw), and DL (2.25xbw). It's nothing to write home about, but I'm stronger now than I was back in my 20's and 30's when I was mostly a runner who played other sports.

[TBPenguin]

For mass - Gladiator from the Mass Protocol book. This worked better for me than the Mass template that showed up in the 2nd edition of TB and Grey Man from the Mass Protocol book.

As noted here viewtopic.php?f=5&t=1172&p=21613#p21613, MT from the Mass Protocol book probably has an edge over Gladiator for me.

So I just read over this thread in its entirety, it's been a while. Worth a review or a first read for sure.

Other updates:

At this point I should get credit for 1.5 memberships in the After-40 club. While my training maxes are not really going up, they are not really going down either. Sensitivity to caloric balance and to macronutrient balance is up a bit.

There is still not much for the After-40 club written by people who have either 1) trained a good number of people in that club, or 2) trained themselves for an extended period as a club member.

In another thread KB wrote that he has used Operator during Base Building. I tried it, and at least with the lower volume E recommended for the A40 Club, this is easy to run for even longer than BB calls for. After the gym lockdowns, taking more time off of MS work was not a good idea.

So members of the club, what have you learned since you last posted in this thread?

[Barkadion]

For mass - Gladiator from the Mass Protocol book. This worked better for me than the Mass template that showed up in the 2nd edition of TB and Grey Man from the Mass Protocol book.

As noted here viewtopic.php?f=5&t=1172&p=21613#p21613, MT from the Mass Protocol book probably has an edge over Gladiator for me.

So I just read over this thread in its entirety, it's been a while. Worth a review or a first read for sure.

Other updates:

At this point I should get credit for 1.5 memberships in the After-40 club. While my training maxes are not really going up, they are not really going down either. Sensitivity to caloric balance and to macronutrient balance is up a bit.

There is still not much for the After-40 club written by people who have either 1) trained a good number of people in that club, or 2) trained themselves for an extended period as a club member.

In another thread KB wrote that he has used Operator during Base Building. I tried it, and at least with the lower volume E recommended for the A40 Club, this is easy to run for even longer than BB calls for. After the gym lockdowns, taking more time off of MS work was not a good idea.

So members of the club, what have you learned since you last posted in this thread?

I’ve learned that using 89% TM is a really good idea! Another thing is that using 30min E sessions and under 15min HIC is very productive. It really helps to take it slow and steady after 40..

[VenomousCoffee]

I've learned that it is MUCH harder to drop fat, esp belly fat.

[godjira1]

This is actually a basic tenet of TB that I have discarded - I do ZERO HIC. A light mobility session goes much further in terms of aiding the rest of my training program (the MS, E, BJJ). Something worth tinkering with.