The question’s in the title, but to elaborate:
How much room is there for short distance (1.5-2mile) speed work in Base Building and Green? The book says walking is okay to keep HR within limits. Does running 200m with a 1:1 or longer walking rest to keep HR down meet the same goals as LSS jogging?
If 2 mile time is tested for occupational reasons (.mil/LEO fitness tests,etc.), should a trainee go through Black or Black Pro with running based HICs to get it within acceptable limits before doing anything else?
Green vs Black/Black Pro for 2 mile time?
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FatBradleyGuy
- Posts: 3
- Joined: Sat Jan 30, 2021 8:55 am
Re: Green vs Black/Black Pro for 2 mile time?
If I am understanding your question, you are asking whether running 200s with high intensity and rest intervals would be better than LSS for improving a 2 mile run time.
My understanding of the book suggests that LSS would be more appropriate due to training the exact energy pathway as you'll use in the 2 mile.
2 mile runs for time would be dependent upon cardiovascular endurance and strength endurance. It seems logical to assume something like a fun run with LSS and SE elements would be ideal. K Black indicated that HIT without LSS destroyed his 1.5 mile run, and he remedied that with LSS.
Hope that helps. I have similar goals and I'm going to run Green for 2-3 blocks with some deadlift work and fun runs. I am confident that will work very well.
My understanding of the book suggests that LSS would be more appropriate due to training the exact energy pathway as you'll use in the 2 mile.
2 mile runs for time would be dependent upon cardiovascular endurance and strength endurance. It seems logical to assume something like a fun run with LSS and SE elements would be ideal. K Black indicated that HIT without LSS destroyed his 1.5 mile run, and he remedied that with LSS.
Hope that helps. I have similar goals and I'm going to run Green for 2-3 blocks with some deadlift work and fun runs. I am confident that will work very well.
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FatBradleyGuy
- Posts: 3
- Joined: Sat Jan 30, 2021 8:55 am
Re: Green vs Black/Black Pro for 2 mile time?
High intensity is a bit of a misnomer; at my current fitness level, 200m repeats with a 1:1 work:recovery ratio are only sustainable at a rather low intensity.
I’m familiar with that part of the tb2 intro. While a good anecdote about the necessity of aerobic training, it doesn’t exactly demonstrate causality between anaerobic training and slower run times. Studies suggest a relatively low anaerobic contribution to 1500/3000m runs; most of these studies tested a population of elite (or at least competitive) runners. We can probably assume K.B’s fitness level (and thus energy system utilization) was closer to the tested population’s.
Does anaerobic system contribute more or less in a 1.5-2mi effort by someone more out of running shape than the aforementioned elite?
We haven’t even addressed running as a skill. Pacing, running economy, etc certainly play a part here.
So here’s the question, rephrased: for the absolute fastest short-term gains in 1.5/2mi performance, should I include anaerobic training or not? If so, how much should I include, and what’s the best way to fit this into the TB framework?
I’m sure I’m overthinking it. Running work of almost any sort is certain to produce improvement at my current level.
I’m familiar with that part of the tb2 intro. While a good anecdote about the necessity of aerobic training, it doesn’t exactly demonstrate causality between anaerobic training and slower run times. Studies suggest a relatively low anaerobic contribution to 1500/3000m runs; most of these studies tested a population of elite (or at least competitive) runners. We can probably assume K.B’s fitness level (and thus energy system utilization) was closer to the tested population’s.
Does anaerobic system contribute more or less in a 1.5-2mi effort by someone more out of running shape than the aforementioned elite?
We haven’t even addressed running as a skill. Pacing, running economy, etc certainly play a part here.
So here’s the question, rephrased: for the absolute fastest short-term gains in 1.5/2mi performance, should I include anaerobic training or not? If so, how much should I include, and what’s the best way to fit this into the TB framework?
I’m sure I’m overthinking it. Running work of almost any sort is certain to produce improvement at my current level.
Re: Green vs Black/Black Pro for 2 mile time?
In my opinion, when there is a choice between LSS and HIC, go with LSS every time. You build a bigger engine, and you'll be able to go faster. I was a runner before I came to TB, and I've now been with TB a LONG time. Even within the TB framework, I had decided that I wanted to run Black Pro, and I did (HIC 2x/week and LSS 1x/week). I've now circled the block and come back to LSS 2x/week and HIC 1x/week. Why? Because, again, you build a bigger engine to run a faster time.
Am I saying that speedwork is useless? Definitely not. Tempo runs, 200s, and 400s have their place. Tempo runs teach your body to hold a sustained pace when it's uncomfortable, and sprint intervals teach you to have faster leg turnover. But if you're trying to get a better 2-mile time (especially when you tell us that you are out of shape) then you need to build your cardio engine first. Also, if you're out of shape and you start trying to run 200s and 400s, you might well find yourself injured.
One last thing. Here's where your question went awry. You said, "for the absolute fastest short-term gains..." Sorry, but consistency over time always trumps fast short-term gains. I know that what you're really asking is, "If I have xxx amount of time. Which workout will give me better results?" But, again, that's the wrong question. The question to ask is, "What's the best, smartest way to get from where I am to where I want to be?" And I would say, based upon your question, that it's to focus more on the distance work.
So run base building. Even after base building start incorporating one HIC workout per week and keep working 2 LSS runs/week. If I were you, I'd focus more on tempo runs than 200s/400s. However, you could also alternate weeks between a tempo run and a workout of 400s. I'd steer clear of 200s personally. Yes, they do teach leg turnover, but for your purposes focus more on distance.
Now, this is all my humble opinion. You are an experiment of one. If you want to run 200s then do it and get back with us to share your progress. If you want to focus more on LSS then do it and get back with us on your progress. That's the purpose of the forums - to learn from one another. But my suggestion, in your situation, focus more on the distance to build your cardio engine and later slowly start incorporating some high intensity work.
Am I saying that speedwork is useless? Definitely not. Tempo runs, 200s, and 400s have their place. Tempo runs teach your body to hold a sustained pace when it's uncomfortable, and sprint intervals teach you to have faster leg turnover. But if you're trying to get a better 2-mile time (especially when you tell us that you are out of shape) then you need to build your cardio engine first. Also, if you're out of shape and you start trying to run 200s and 400s, you might well find yourself injured.
One last thing. Here's where your question went awry. You said, "for the absolute fastest short-term gains..." Sorry, but consistency over time always trumps fast short-term gains. I know that what you're really asking is, "If I have xxx amount of time. Which workout will give me better results?" But, again, that's the wrong question. The question to ask is, "What's the best, smartest way to get from where I am to where I want to be?" And I would say, based upon your question, that it's to focus more on the distance work.
So run base building. Even after base building start incorporating one HIC workout per week and keep working 2 LSS runs/week. If I were you, I'd focus more on tempo runs than 200s/400s. However, you could also alternate weeks between a tempo run and a workout of 400s. I'd steer clear of 200s personally. Yes, they do teach leg turnover, but for your purposes focus more on distance.
Now, this is all my humble opinion. You are an experiment of one. If you want to run 200s then do it and get back with us to share your progress. If you want to focus more on LSS then do it and get back with us on your progress. That's the purpose of the forums - to learn from one another. But my suggestion, in your situation, focus more on the distance to build your cardio engine and later slowly start incorporating some high intensity work.