A younger family member asked me how he could start strength training. He's never trained in a serious way before, although he has played around in the gym so is at least familiar with the various exercises (if not a master of them). He's not going into a tactical profession, rather just looking to get strong.
My advice was he start out with Stronglifts or Starting Strength, which is what I did. I told him to milk the linear progression as long as he could.
Curious to know what you would have told him.
What advice would you give a rank novice?
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tomcatflyer
- Posts: 38
- Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 6:52 pm
Re: What advice would you give a rank novice?
I agree with you 100%. Buy the latest Starting Strength book and read it cover-to-cover, then read it cover-to-cover again in 3 months. Check out Rip's videos for form. Either work with a training partner, or video himself (especially the squat) for form.
Work with a coach after the initial month or so if possible, at least for a workout or two, just to fine tune the form. (I myself thought I was doing squats right, but my knees were drifting out way too far forward, which is not so good for them. I went to a Starting Strength coach and he caught that immediately.)
When the newbie gains run out (probably between 3 months and a year), it's time to transition. You can't hit a PR every day forever without getting real sore and overtrained. Fans of Rip can follow a protocol in his Practical Programming for Strength Training, but be prepared to spend a significant amount of time in the gym. Others can go to TB.
Then after a year, read Starting Strength cover-to-cover again. It's amazing what you will have missed that makes sense after a year of training.
The only thing I don't like about SS is the Power Cleans, but I'm an old fart. I e-mailed Rip to ask what to do instead, and he said "more deadlifts."
Work with a coach after the initial month or so if possible, at least for a workout or two, just to fine tune the form. (I myself thought I was doing squats right, but my knees were drifting out way too far forward, which is not so good for them. I went to a Starting Strength coach and he caught that immediately.)
When the newbie gains run out (probably between 3 months and a year), it's time to transition. You can't hit a PR every day forever without getting real sore and overtrained. Fans of Rip can follow a protocol in his Practical Programming for Strength Training, but be prepared to spend a significant amount of time in the gym. Others can go to TB.
Then after a year, read Starting Strength cover-to-cover again. It's amazing what you will have missed that makes sense after a year of training.
The only thing I don't like about SS is the Power Cleans, but I'm an old fart. I e-mailed Rip to ask what to do instead, and he said "more deadlifts."
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Green2Blue
- Posts: 651
- Joined: Sun Aug 28, 2016 9:17 pm
Re: What advice would you give a rank novice?
Definitely SS.
Pendlay rows are the sub for power cleans. But I wish I had started with power cleans. I'm just now learning them after almost a decade of training.
Pendlay rows are the sub for power cleans. But I wish I had started with power cleans. I'm just now learning them after almost a decade of training.
Re: What advice would you give a rank novice?
I can't argue against Starting Strength. Only a fool would!
This summer, however, I started my own son on Greyskull LP. It's very close to SS, but there is a rep max aspect too. Think of a Wendler-Ripp bastard child. I like the rep max for newbie "skinny bastards" as a way of catalyzing some much needed hypertrophy. I wouldn't turn a teenager loose with a license to go for broke, but if you can watch the them closely and help them to know when to pull the plug, I think this is a good tool to use.
This summer, however, I started my own son on Greyskull LP. It's very close to SS, but there is a rep max aspect too. Think of a Wendler-Ripp bastard child. I like the rep max for newbie "skinny bastards" as a way of catalyzing some much needed hypertrophy. I wouldn't turn a teenager loose with a license to go for broke, but if you can watch the them closely and help them to know when to pull the plug, I think this is a good tool to use.
Re: What advice would you give a rank novice?
I agree with J-Madd on GSLP. I like it alot. There are 3 things that seem to make GSLP work well for newbies: 1) slower progression so you can run it longer before resetting, 2) rep maxes, and 3) and an easy to understand and very usable reset procedure. In fact, a case can be made that GSLP's reset procedure makes it much more than a "beginner" program. You could run GSLP a very long time (if not, perpetually) and continue to see results. (Quick caveat here: I hate the labeling of certain programs as beginner, intermediate, or advanced. Labeling causes a lot of confusion and there's too many different opinions about what makes a program fit into each category.) I also agree with J-Madd's caution above. With GSLP (as with any other "max rep" program), you have to know how to leave a couple of reps in the tank. Otherwise, you won't recover well enough for the next workout.J-Madd wrote:I can't argue against Starting Strength. Only a fool would!
This summer, however, I started my own son on Greyskull LP. It's very close to SS, but there is a rep max aspect too. Think of a Wendler-Ripp bastard child. I like the rep max for newbie "skinny bastards" as a way of catalyzing some much needed hypertrophy. I wouldn't turn a teenager loose with a license to go for broke, but if you can watch the them closely and help them to know when to pull the plug, I think this is a good tool to use.
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Your_Lunch
- Posts: 32
- Joined: Tue Sep 06, 2016 10:22 am
- Location: Australia
Re: What advice would you give a rank novice?
Is there a generally accepted idea about how long a linear progression scheme like GreySkull’s would continue to see progress?
I only ask as I jumped into TB as a total beginner a year ago...against advice in threads like this, because I’m a special snowflake...and while I’ve been seeing some good results (and will be using TB as my long-term programming), I’m just curious about tinkering with an LP program for a couple of months to see the difference. In saying that though, I don’t want to wasting my time getting nowhere either!
I only ask as I jumped into TB as a total beginner a year ago...against advice in threads like this, because I’m a special snowflake...and while I’ve been seeing some good results (and will be using TB as my long-term programming), I’m just curious about tinkering with an LP program for a couple of months to see the difference. In saying that though, I don’t want to wasting my time getting nowhere either!
Re: What advice would you give a rank novice?
I also initially used SS to great effect and would recommend as well, great program for Liner progression, i had messed around with strong lifts prior to that and found the 5x5 too much volume as a novice and much preferred the 3x5 model of SS.
On a slightly different not i'd add that he pay attention to Mobility/Flexibility, no one seems to talk about it that much but i feel grooving the patterns are essential. I personally use the Joe Defranco Limber 11 with a few other exercises mixed in for Hip and Hip flexor flexibility, helped me a lot with squat and deadlift form, Joe Knows his stuff https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FSSDLDhbacc
On a slightly different not i'd add that he pay attention to Mobility/Flexibility, no one seems to talk about it that much but i feel grooving the patterns are essential. I personally use the Joe Defranco Limber 11 with a few other exercises mixed in for Hip and Hip flexor flexibility, helped me a lot with squat and deadlift form, Joe Knows his stuff https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FSSDLDhbacc
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DocOctagon
- Posts: 309
- Joined: Wed Sep 07, 2016 2:46 am
Re: What advice would you give a rank novice?
This is key. In this particular context Starting Strength or any other LP makes the most sense.tomcatflyer wrote:He's not going into a tactical profession, rather just looking to get strong.
On the other hand, for the multi- athlete that this forum tends to attract, LP has a short shelf life IME. It doesn't take too long before linear workouts start affecting conditioning and vice versa. Young athletes (teens, early 20s) and total newbs can usually extend that shelf-life for a little longer, as well as athletes that are proficient in managing recovery, periodization and nutrition. Still, soon enough it becomes an uphill battle. The amount of importance placed on conditioning can lessen or increase the speed at which the athlete stalls.
My go to move with novices using TB is to have them run Base Building (SE first) but with linear progression for the last 2-3 weeks instead of Fighter. If they respond well, I'll have them continue with LP as they transition into Continuation and see how long they can ride it out. Novices that continue with Black can usually run LP a little longer than Green. Same with the ones that stay on top of their nutrition and recovery. I find this to be a really natural and effective method for determining individual tolerance to combining LP & conditioning/skills training.
* I don't know if you guys have noticed, but there's a major backlash against SS and SL going on over at Reddit, r/fitness. A lot of experienced-knowledgeable posters from r/weightroom and r/powerlifting seem to be on the bandwagon too. I believe r/fitness has actually removed SS from their list of beginner recommended programs, although I could be mistaken. Thoughts?
Re: What advice would you give a rank novice?
It was removed..DocOctagon wrote: * I don't know if you guys have noticed, but there's a major backlash against SS and SL going on over at Reddit, r/fitness. A lot of experienced-knowledgeable posters from r/weightroom and r/powerlifting seem to be on the bandwagon too. I believe r/fitness has actually removed SS from their list of beginner recommended programs, although I could be mistaken. Thoughts?
https://www.reddit.com/r/Fitness/commen ... g_started/
https://www.reddit.com/r/gainit/comment ... e_rgainit/
"Man is what he reads." - Joseph Brodsky
Re: What advice would you give a rank novice?
Great suggestions above.
I think you would do fine with simple operator from TB progressing and retesting every 6 weeks. That 6 week massive jump will be addictive if the beginner can stick to it.
Depending on what the goals are I would also throw Never Gym less or Infinite Intensity in the mix. I own and love both of Ross's books though I never completed the full 50 day program. In fact I really under utilised these resources.
Don't get me wrong I love barbell work and linear progression is the way to go to start your strength journey, but I am finding I am moving further and further away from the traditional squat/bench/deadlift with barbells in my training.
I have also seen some very successful templates pairing TB fighter with Infinite Intensity. The conditioning work in Ross's books are excellent to pair with sport training provided you have a decent aerobic base.
I think you would do fine with simple operator from TB progressing and retesting every 6 weeks. That 6 week massive jump will be addictive if the beginner can stick to it.
Depending on what the goals are I would also throw Never Gym less or Infinite Intensity in the mix. I own and love both of Ross's books though I never completed the full 50 day program. In fact I really under utilised these resources.
Don't get me wrong I love barbell work and linear progression is the way to go to start your strength journey, but I am finding I am moving further and further away from the traditional squat/bench/deadlift with barbells in my training.
I have also seen some very successful templates pairing TB fighter with Infinite Intensity. The conditioning work in Ross's books are excellent to pair with sport training provided you have a decent aerobic base.