Butt Wink

[Ginjadave]

Hi Guys,

Theres probably a few of you wondering what the hell Butt wink is and thinking this may be a slightly dodgy topic...

Well I'm having a bad case of but wink, so much so i can no Longer squat and I've just come here to garner some advice and ask if anyone else has had and resolved bad butt wink. For those who don't know but wink is basically your back rounding at the bottom of the squat.

I think I've always had it but just ploughed through but at the moment if i squat my lower back is in agony for 2 days so I've had to stop, my current cluster on fighter is now Deadlift, OHP, farmers walk which i am loving but i want to be able to squat again.

Ive self diagnosed myself with anterior pelvic tilt and am trying to loosen up my hamstrings, I've had a good trawl around the internet and found some good youtube videos from several people including Alan Thrall https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BEn61BL4Nwk (His channel is great by the way)

I highly respect the communities experience and advice and just wanted to ask if anyone had any real world experience of butt wink/lower back pain and had managed to correct and resolve it? I seen to get it worst with low bar back squats but high bar back and front squats are killing me too.

Im thinking of adding in Bulgarian split squats or Goblet squats just to keep greasing the movement until i can figure out how to stop my butt wink, thoughts?

Cheers

Dave

[Green2Blue]

When I first started to work on improving my squat depth I experienced it. But major emphasis on mobility cleaned it right up. Your mobility work needs to be as important as your workout.

[Barkadion]

Your mobility work needs to be as important as your workout.

I am quoting PT guy who helped with my injury recovery:

"Your mobility work gets more important than your workout once you get older"

[Ginjadave]

Yeah well I've hit 40 now and it certainly feels a lot different to 30!

I've started a 20 min mobility routine before lifting now and one of my New Years resolutions is to do 10 mins each morning and evening to help

[lennarn]

I used to have this posterior pelvic tilt in the bottom of the squat (why you'd call it "wink" is beyond me). After I've been doing a lot of front squat, back squat, and RDL it is pretty much gone and back squats don't hurt my lower back. I think it was the RDL doing the trick, improving my hamstring strength in a stretched position, decreasing neural tone, increasing flexibility. YMMV but good luck!

[Maxrip13]

I have bought squat shoes and I am using plates to temporarily raise my heels. This seems to be working for me.

Mobility is generally the issue, but I can do one legged pistols so not sure what else I need mobility wise. I am working on one legged deadlifts as a finisher, but the raised heels seems to work in the interim.

[Ginjadave]

Funnily enough i had a functional movement screen today and the second my heels were raised 2" my squat became immaculate, I'm going to but some squat shoes as a short term fix and work on my Hip and ankle mobility in the meantime.

Out of interest has anyone read how to be a supple leopard by Kelly starrett? Or does anyone use his website Mobility WOD?

[Maxrip13]

I own supple leopard and don't find it much use. The best mobility site I ever found was ROMWOD.
Basically it's a different follow along video each day. It's absolutely brilliant and worth the cash.

[Maxrip13]

Squatted today in my new squat shoes and so far minimal issues from the usual butt wink pain. I have been squatting in minimal shoes for years and think I may have made a mistake all this time.

I also bought some brooks runners which are minimal by asics standards. but have helped with alot of foot pain I used to have.
Barefoot is cool, but I am not sure it's for me haha.

[Fogull]

I'm learning to low bar squat right now and I've been working at it a lot without weight and with just the 45lb bar on my back in the mirror. My butt wink was caused by a few things that I think I've come close to fixing:

• 1. Going too deep. When I first started learning to low bar squat I was trying to do the ass to grass type of squat. However, because I'm quite tall (6'4"), the ATG depth is much more difficult to achieve. I have learned to stop just below parallel and I was able to keep my low back tight.
  
  2. Ankle mobility. I've learned recently that I have very tight calves and achilles tendons. This can affect your ankle flexion and can cause butt wink. I've worked on it by stretching and rolling my calf. I've also worked on my achilles by standing by a wall (toe 3 inches from the wall) and trying to touch the wall with my knee. I did this a few times a day (especially before bed) and it has helped a lot.
  
  3. Anterior pelvic tilt (ATP). This one was a biggie for me because it affected more than just my squat. Anytime I had to stand for more than 20 minutes, my low back would be in agony because of this issue. You mentioned you were stretching your hamstrings to prevent this issue. To be frank, that is the last thing you should do to fix ATP. If you have ATP, your hamstrings are likely tight but they are tight because of the ATP, not the other way around.
  
  The proper way to fix ATP is to actually strengthen your hamstrings and glutes, not stretch them. Add to this a hip and quad stretch as well as strengthening your abs will help with ATP. I found Romanian Deadlifts amazing. Also, hanging from a dip bar and then lifting your pelvis (either reps or a hold) is great. This video from Athlean-X is a great demonstration on what causes ATP and how to fix it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K-CrEi0ymMg
  
  All that said, a butt wink without having ATP could most likely be caused by tight hamstrings. So you should still stretch them but it won't fix your ATP. A tight hamstring would cause your pelvis to rotate under you at the bottom of a squat causing the rounded back.

Bottom line, stretch everything lol: hamstrings, glutes, hips, quads, calves, achilles, and adductors.

Best of luck,

Fogull