Just Had a Thought...Black Protocol & SE

[Nomad]

I could be wrong, but the way I understand it is that SE is more of a workout for the muscles rather than cardio. Instead of training the muscles for maximum load like with Op template, you train them for repeated efforts/muscle endurance. Wouldn't the conditioning aspect of it just be a side effect? Some people huff and puff pretty hard doing heavy squats, doesn't necessarily make it an ideal cardio session though.

Quite right..... especially in regard to the Heavy Squat analogy...... Aerobic Endurance is different to Strength endurance....... One of the factors concerning Aerobic endurance is veinous return, and left ventricle volume.

In regard to strength endurance, since the application of strength by a muscle necessitates a fraction of a second closure or near closure of the blood vessels in the muscles concerned and subsequently, due to other processes [Intra Thoracic Pressure], squeezing or closure of the 2 main veins responsible for carrying blood back to the heart thus hindering return to the heart which is in direct oppostion of what needs to happen for the 'Aerobic' aspect of endurance training, [It's a lot more complicated than this, and would require a lot more writing on my part - let's just say Kenneth Jay wrote quite a bit about this. - Cardio Code is the tome, but there will be other articles written by him in connection with this..... Andrew Read and Alex Viada also wrote on this subject.]

Actually, it is also the reason I tend to steer away from swings and 'lifting weights faster' to increase my Aerobic fitness. [This is a change in philosphy on my part over the last 4 years or so.... I had bought into the Swings are the answer to everything and 'what the heck' effect for a number of years, without fully looking into the physiology side of things closely.... in fact it was down to the works of Alex Viada that led to a change in my thinking]

Don't get me wrong, there will be a benefit to aerobic training from swings, snatches etc, but they will not be as good as Rowing, Running, Cycling, skiiing....... choosing the right tools for the job..... and keeping the goal the goal is of importance.

Apologies for getting somewhat technical, it's not usually my style

Thanks for the great explanation. Please do get technical, I really like learning about this stuff!

[DocOctagon]

Personally I'd do a Fun-Run or Fobbit Interval instead, you can squeeze a lot of SE in with both.

I go extreme on different direction and treat FunRun as a HIC and just started use it on HIC day. I do like it as safe compromise. I might be wrong, though..

A fun-run is definitely mostly aerobic. Aerobic training isn't restricted to slow running between 130-150bpm. LSS runs are a specific type of aerobic training that elicit a specific response. They're not the only kind of aerobic training.

[Saracen]

Since SE technically falls under "E" in the vault, can you do SE circuits on an E day during Black Protocol (professional or standard)? Like this;

D1 Op
D2 HIC
D3 Op
D4 HIC
D5 Op
D6 SE Circuits
D7 OFF

Why not? Wouldn't it be similar to a Fun-run? My SE circuits feel very much like a cardio session at times. Seems like a really convenient way to get some SE in.

Well it is categorized as E in TB2, and they do keep you moving continuously for the most part. Once in a while might be ok with the following caveats;

1. Use bodyweight exercises only. Barbell or weighted movements might cause too much DOMs and screw up your next Operator session. You might be able to get away with light KB swings.

2. Use "A" circuits

3. Should last a minimum of 30 mins

Personally I'd do a Fun-Run or Fobbit Interval instead, you can squeeze a lot of SE in with both.

The more I think about it, the more sense it makes to go Fobbit or FunRun. Thanks for the input.

[Saracen]

I could be wrong, but the way I understand it is that SE is more of a workout for the muscles rather than cardio. Instead of training the muscles for maximum load like with Op template, you train them for repeated efforts/muscle endurance. Wouldn't the conditioning aspect of it just be a side effect? Some people huff and puff pretty hard doing heavy squats, doesn't necessarily make it an ideal cardio session though.

Quite right..... especially in regard to the Heavy Squat analogy...... Aerobic Endurance is different to Strength endurance....... One of the factors concerning Aerobic endurance is veinous return, and left ventricle volume.

In regard to strength endurance, since the application of strength by a muscle necessitates a fraction of a second closure or near closure of the blood vessels in the muscles concerned and subsequently, due to other processes [Intra Thoracic Pressure], squeezing or closure of the 2 main veins responsible for carrying blood back to the heart thus hindering return to the heart which is in direct oppostion of what needs to happen for the 'Aerobic' aspect of endurance training, [It's a lot more complicated than this, and would require a lot more writing on my part - let's just say Kenneth Jay wrote quite a bit about this. - Cardio Code is the tome, but there will be other articles written by him in connection with this..... Andrew Read and Alex Viada also wrote on this subject.]

Actually, it is also the reason I tend to steer away from swings and 'lifting weights faster' to increase my Aerobic fitness. [This is a change in philosphy on my part over the last 4 years or so.... I had bought into the Swings are the answer to everything and 'what the heck' effect for a number of years, without fully looking into the physiology side of things closely.... in fact it was down to the works of Alex Viada that led to a change in my thinking]

Don't get me wrong, there will be a benefit to aerobic training from swings, snatches etc, but they will not be as good as Rowing, Running, Cycling, skiiing....... choosing the right tools for the job..... and keeping the goal the goal is of importance.

Apologies for getting somewhat technical, it's not usually my style

@Nomad, Yeah that squat analogy really nails it, makes sense. Never thought of it like that.

And awesome info THLE, thanks for teh input!

[Barkadion]

Personally I'd do a Fun-Run or Fobbit Interval instead, you can squeeze a lot of SE in with both.

I go extreme on different direction and treat FunRun as a HIC and just started use it on HIC day. I do like it as safe compromise. I might be wrong, though..

A fun-run is definitely mostly aerobic. Aerobic training isn't restricted to slow running between 130-150bpm. LSS runs are a specific type of aerobic training that elicit a specific response. They're not the only kind of aerobic training.

What do you think about running Black with 1HIC/1E(30min) on the regular basis? It could be 1HIC/2E every other week.

[DocOctagon]

I go extreme on different direction and treat FunRun as a HIC and just started use it on HIC day. I do like it as safe compromise. I might be wrong, though..

A fun-run is definitely mostly aerobic. Aerobic training isn't restricted to slow running between 130-150bpm. LSS runs are a specific type of aerobic training that elicit a specific response. They're not the only kind of aerobic training.

What do you think about running Black with 1HIC/1E(30min) on the regular basis? It could be 1HIC/2E every other week.

I don't know. Why? For what purpose? For who? For what training goal?

[Green2Blue]

I go extreme on different direction and treat FunRun as a HIC and just started use it on HIC day. I do like it as safe compromise. I might be wrong, though..

A fun-run is definitely mostly aerobic. Aerobic training isn't restricted to slow running between 130-150bpm. LSS runs are a specific type of aerobic training that elicit a specific response. They're not the only kind of aerobic training.

What do you think about running Black with 1HIC/1E(30min) on the regular basis? It could be 1HIC/2E every other week.

I've tried higher E during Op. It didn't go well at all Bark. I'd stick with no more than one a week. Otherwise do Fighter Green. The E doesn't play well with the more frequent MS days.

[Barkadion]

A fun-run is definitely mostly aerobic. Aerobic training isn't restricted to slow running between 130-150bpm. LSS runs are a specific type of aerobic training that elicit a specific response. They're not the only kind of aerobic training.

What do you think about running Black with 1HIC/1E(30min) on the regular basis? It could be 1HIC/2E every other week.

I've tried higher E during Op. It didn't go well at all Bark. I'd stick with no more than one a week. Otherwise do Fighter Green. The E doesn't play well with the more frequent MS days.

Thank you. Makes sense!