Integrating Weightlifting

[Blackmetalbunny]

Weightlifting and the idea of putting substantial weight overhead has been somewhat of a goal of mine since I started training, and a few weeks back I finally found a weightlifter here in Singapore to learn from. The experience has been nothing short of exhilarating.

I’ve only just currently finished the snatch, but I wanted to share some insights, and can hopefully contribute something different to the forums.

Learn weightlifting if you want to accelerate and put something heavy over head very quickly.
No, I’ll say that’s a disservice to what weightlifting is. Apart from the obvious demands on power generation, agility, grace etc… what is rarely talked about is the kinesiological demands and benefits of weightlifting.

You must be innately aware of where your barbell is, where each part of your body is, and how you’re moving it. Then you'll be to innately aware of where the barbell and your body will be. Without thinking about where you or the barbell will be at all times.

Simply learning the 1st and 2nd pull gave me massive insight into what it really means. Suddenly; the squat is no longer a dive and stand, nor is the deadlift a grip and rip. I’m aware of where and how I’m moving the barbell, and after a few practice sessions, I learnt automatically adjust and compensate my body movement for the most efficient power transmission.

I was working my 60% 1RM just to grease the groove while I’m finishing my lessons, and despite ignoring my max strength work for the past 4 weeks, I’ve never felt that 60% to be as light as it is now.

This is in addition to changing my form from a low bar to a high bar squat.

We’re looking for strength, not power generation
Yes; but remember that power = force X rate of acceleration. Power is effectively an expression of your strength. Are you able to put all the strength to generate power.

What good is being strong, if you aren’t able to express a significant portion of that strength as power.

Basic movements are enough for me
That is true, until you undergo the different stages of the pull. I can now do a decent number of pull-ups. I can deadlift around 2x BW but that didn’t mean zilch when I tried to string my first and second pull together.

A working set of 120kg deadlifts didn’t mean anything when I tried to bring an empty barbell - a measly 20kgs, from the floor to chest height. At that moment, I felt like Dan John was looking at me and laughing “looks like Tarzan, plays like Jane”.

I get all my work from the big and basic lifts
When I made my first snatch on an empty barbell, I felt soreness in all so many different parts of my body that I didn’t know weren’t getting hit during my lifts.

Places that were hit bad were parts of my quads I had never really hit with my squats, calves, glutes, lower and upper back, shoulders, and stomach. Places that I thought were hit by doing the deadlifts, squats, pull-ups.

A nice side-effect, my coach advised that by practicing the first and second, I can replace a portion of my deadlift work. The first, second and high pulls are effectively a more complex deadlift.

Despite the demands of weightlifting, I've not felt any joint pain so far. However; I am pretty flexible and mobile, so YMMV.

The risk-reward factor is too high, I’ll stick to BW pylo, kettlebell etc work
I used to think the same thing too, taking Pavel’s word as the reason for why KB work is sufficient for explosiveness.

Not even close.

The level of power (force X rate of acceleration) generation in a snatch is far more demanding than in a KB swing or snatch. A difference I notice is that in the KB swing and snatch, you violently explode the weight, then control the eccentric and concentric phases. You’d need to control your body into full extension, then let the KB drop, but re-exert tension at the bottom of the swing / snatch.

In contrast, the Oly lifts require precise control WHILE you violently explode the weight off the floor. You may go all out, but you still have to practice control over that power generation to maintain control over the bar at all times.

You can’t simply explode the bar as high as you can and then find a way to receive the bar. The over-riding idea is to explode the bar as high as you need it, and to move your body into a position that allows you to completely tense your body the very moment you receive the bar. The idea is that if you need exactly 60kg of force to do the snatch, you express exactly 60kg, irrespective of how much your 1RM snatch is - not more force, not less force. Exactly 60kgs.

I think a simplistic way to describe this is a street racing drag car vs a F1 car.

The drag car explodes out of the starting line to get past the quarter mile mark as soon as he can, and he only needs to exert enough control to keep the car in a straight line and from flipping.

The F1 car needs to explode out of the starting line, but it still needs to maintain precision control over its speed throughout the race.


I’m not looking to snatch / clean & jerk heavy
You don’t have to. Learn it as something else to work on, you don’t have to aim for a max weight at all. Just work with heavy weights.

I’m plenty confident about myself, brah.
So I thought until I was told to string together all my pulls, get under the bar, and lockout. For the first time since I started lifting, I actually got cold sweats. This was with an empty bar too.

Clear your mind, focus on the lift
This is one common piece of advice a lot of powerlifters talk about when facing down a 1RM - clear your mind and focus only on the lift. I’ve experienced it too... or so I thought, until I got told to snatch a 20kg bar overhead.

The level of focus that was forced onto me just before and during the snatch was nothing I’ve ever experienced during my 1RM tests. The reason is simple. In the BS / DL / BP / OHP, you know you’re controlling every inch of the lift, through its grind. You know you can adjust your form or dump the bar.

In contrast, during a snatch, you have micro-seconds between the time the bar is on the floor, to the time it is overhead, there’s little room for error. That sense of focus is forced on you, to tune everything else out other than the lift. The bar doesn’t exist. You’re not there. There’s only the lift. Yoda’s wisdom “do or do not, there is no try” never rings truer than that moment just before you grab the bar until the moment you drop it.


I hope that helps, and at least gives someone else the little spark to consider trying Oly lifting and integrating it into TB.

[Maxrip13]

Good to hear you have found a decent coach to do some weightlifting practice with i got the same experience nearly 10 years ago when I was younger and I wish I had continued to pursue weightlifting as a side sport.

I remember hitting my first 70 kg snatch and a 90 kg clean and jerk at a bodyweight of 68kg. I don't say these to brag, but at the time I was mainly focusing on powerlifting and had a double bodyweight squat and 2.5x Bodyweight deadlift.

I can second what you said and my max attempts on those powerlifts were no where near as difficult as my weightlifting maxes. I actually blacked out standing after the clean and jerk attempt.

I have recently added power clean and presses back into my training and my ability to "pull" correctly is completely non existent.

Enjoy the weightlifting journey and one word of advice is to always keep them in your rotation of exercises to maintain some motor skills. I was able to move much better and was much stronger over all when I included weightlifting in my program, even just a couple of snatch sets as a warm up for my squats.

[Blackmetalbunny]

I remember hitting my first 70 kg snatch and a 90 kg clean and jerk at a bodyweight of 68kg.

Wow, that's pretty efficient.

[grouchyjarhead]

Weightlifting is fantastic, the only big issue the average folks have with it is it's specialized to the point where it necessitates mandatory coaching.

I trained for a few years at a local barbell club and managed to develop a fair bit of strength in the lifts (that was actually my first introduction to periodization as well, though I'm a slow learner and it took me a lot longer to realize its benefits), but once it moved far away I ended up training the lifts on my own once again for a while. I struggled with lots of form issues and only when I did a casual session with a friend of mine who still regularly trained there did I realize how many bad habits I was instilling. That's why I'm wary to recommend the full lifts to anyone without proper coaching. YMMV, of course.

[Maxrip13]

I remember hitting my first 70 kg snatch and a 90 kg clean and jerk at a bodyweight of 68kg.

Wow, that's pretty efficient.

I was 17 at the time and had the mobility and fast learning skills that come with being that age. I was also able to train daily and make some excellent improvements due to the strength being there from powerlifting. My snatch was a bit high, but my clean and jerk was on point haha. Strangely a back ground from an early age in Kb snatches and C&J allowed me to understand the technique from weightlifting faster than most. I would be lucky to power clean and jerk 80kg these days and I reckon that would be a true 1 rep max.

I may go and get some coaching in the coming years for some fun and to see if I can get that technique proficiency back. It definitely was an enjoyable way to train, but I am not sure how much it would pair with LSD ruck work and other similar training. I find myself more interested in the endurance side of the spectrum these days as it has always been my weakness.

[Canterbury]

For us non-tactical folk, how would you recommend incorporating this?

[Blackmetalbunny]

I'm currently on a Fighter template which I'll modify in the following vein for weeks 1 & 3

3 X 3 - Snatch / C&J
4 X 5 - Back Squat
4 X 5 - Overhead press
Fighter Pull-up

I'm subbing out deadlifts for the Snatch / C&J. At the same time I'm lowering my session volume for the back squat and OHP because there's already some over head work on the snatch / jerk / push-press.

With the increased demands from the WL lifts, I might even lower the sets to the minimum 3 to maximize recovery. I do not want to do the explosive lifts in 2 days time if I'm drained.

The idea is to do the minimum effective dose to increase your strength while putting emphasis on the WL lifts over the strength lifts.

Another alternative is to only practice high pulls, or hang snatches / hang cleans if you want to focus on the strength + explosive portions of the WL lifts. Then you can increase your volume on the strength lifts.

OR just have a block of

Snatches
Clean & Press
Pull-ups

I've got quite a few ideas, including integrating the variants of the WL, while balancing it out with some strength lift. I'll post some ideas, as I test them, but YMMV - I'm trying to train up my upper body right now.

[Blackmetalbunny]

I would be lucky to power clean and jerk 80kg these days and I reckon that would be a true 1 rep max.

Yeah, I understand, it is humbling to feel how heavy the weight is as you pull it from the floor.

It definitely was an enjoyable way to train, but I am not sure how much it would pair with LSD ruck work and other similar training. I find myself more interested in the endurance side of the spectrum these days as it has always been my weakness.

I agree, it was strenuous, tiring, but also lots of fun. I get why lifting is empowering - squatting, deadlifting and pressing heavy weights really develops a sense of self-confidence.

Then when it comes to WL, it instills a greater sense that you really can do it. It's similar, but also very different in a way.

My plan is to slow my strength lifts & mass development in favour of WL for the next few years.

Weightlifting is fantastic, the only big issue the average folks have with it is it's specialized to the point where it necessitates mandatory coaching.

Definitely. It doesn't help that more than the strength lifts, everyone's form is going to be so different too. All those instruction books and videos that I've hoarded aren't as useful as I thought it would be.

A coach's eye will also catch minute problems which will limit your potential and safety. You might be able to teach yourself to lift, but WL is a whole different ball game.

I struggled with lots of form issues and only when I did a casual session with a friend of mine who still regularly trained there did I realize how many bad habits I was instilling. That's why I'm wary to recommend the full lifts to anyone without proper coaching. YMMV, of course.

I completely understand. After my first lesson, I couldn't absorb everything, and was setting up my starting form completely wrong... that's a whole week of practice down the drain.

A difficult part of WL is it's dynamic and explosive nature. Unlike in the strength lifts where you can slow down, or make small adjustments if you find yourself lifting wrongly. It's so much more difficult with WL. I tend to land with my feet flared out - it's so painful to keep re-practicing to correct that. Then I can't figure out if I'm cutting my high pull short...

So exciting... and so frustrating.

[Barkadion]

I'm currently on a Fighter template which I'll modify in the following vein for weeks 1 & 3

3 X 3 - Snatch / C&J
4 X 5 - Back Squat
4 X 5 - Overhead press
Fighter Pull-up

I'm subbing out deadlifts for the Snatch / C&J. At the same time I'm lowering my session volume for the back squat and OHP because there's already some over head work on the snatch / jerk / push-press.

With the increased demands from the WL lifts, I might even lower the sets to the minimum 3 to maximize recovery. I do not want to do the explosive lifts in 2 days time if I'm drained.

The idea is to do the minimum effective dose to increase your strength while putting emphasis on the WL lifts over the strength lifts.

Another alternative is to only practice high pulls, or hang snatches / hang cleans if you want to focus on the strength + explosive portions of the WL lifts. Then you can increase your volume on the strength lifts.

OR just have a block of

Snatches
Clean & Press
Pull-ups

I've got quite a few ideas, including integrating the variants of the WL, while balancing it out with some strength lift. I'll post some ideas, as I test them, but YMMV - I'm trying to train up my upper body right now.

BMB, are you doing fighter pu every day or steed;e it this way on your lifting days? Thanks!

[Blackmetalbunny]

BMB, are you doing fighter pu every day or steed;e it this way on your lifting days? Thanks!

5 - 6 days a week.

I try for higher reps, lower sets on strength days

Then on conditioning days, I go for ultra low reps, but hit high sets. So far I've gotten to 15 - 20 sets of 2 reps.