Major Back Pain While Running - Deadlift?

[WeekendWarrior]

So I picked up the books about a week ago, tested my max's earlier this week, and started Base Building + Fighter yesterday.
So let me start with a bit of background first. I would say I'm a novice lifted, maybe a year or so of total experience. That being said, I do know some of the basics, such as focus on form and stop when it falters, things like that. I also finished up 12 weeks of AIT a few weeks ago, and we did a ton of running there. For the first few weeks I had some upper back pain when running, but NOTHING like what I just experienced, and it went away pretty quick. So you might think my running base is pretty good now (the one PLT Sgt ran the HELL out of us, strength training non-existent) but its been about a month, month and a half now since I have run last. I was lifting for a couple weeks prior to starting this program.

So there, thats where I am now physically. Now onto the problem.
I started the program yesterday after getting my max's earlier. I am doing BP, SQ, DL + PU. As much as I didn't want to, I am using the training max too.
Today I did my first 30 minute run/jog. After about 30 seconds I started getting some major lower back pain, just above the waist. As bad as it was, I figured, no big deal, it will go away and eventually disappear the further I get into the program. 10-15 minutes later its still there, but worse. Now I have had a lot of back pain in my relatively short life (ruck marches suck and the like) but nothing like this. It lasted the entire run. I'm inclined to say its just my weak back and it will go away with training, and that this pain was caused from deadlifting yesterday. Yes, I put a focus on good form, so I doubt its a form issue (that being said nobody is watching me so I could be wrong) I'm wondering if I should stop deadlifting for the rest of BB and try again when I start operator, or maybe try reducing the weight. Thoughts?

I'm thinking with all the backpain I have had over the years I should see a doctor at some point.
Man I hate going to the doctors.

[Balaclava]

Take this with a big fat disclaimer, this isn't medical advice. Definitely see a Dr.

What deadlift set-up are you using? How many work sets?

Are you staying within the LSS pace guidelines of 130-150bpm?
That's a pretty slow pace. Probably just a little bit faster than a walk or shuffle for most people. Should be fairly easy to sustain no matter how sore or beat-up you feel.

You might benefit from doing an SE first cluster. If your back is the weak point, SE can strengthen connective tissue, ligaments etc as advertised. Might be a good way to break yourself in after a month off of running. Possibly include hyperxtensions, KB or Romanian deadlifts in your SE along with abdominal work to balance out your core.

[WeekendWarrior]

What exactly do you mean by deadlift setup? Sets and reps and what not?
I did 4 sets of 5 reps at 75% of my training max.

I ran pretty slow. I was able to swear pretty often.

You are probably right about doing SE first, as much as I want to do strength first and build up my 'reservoir' (and just lift in general). It would probably make all the cardio work easier too.

[MuftiMike]

What exactly do you mean by deadlift setup? Sets and reps and what not?
I did 4 sets of 5 reps at 75% of my training max.

I ran pretty slow. I was able to swear pretty often.

You are probably right about doing SE first, as much as I want to do strength first and build up my 'reservoir' (and just lift in general). It would probably make all the cardio work easier too.

I think our friend Balaclava has nailed it...

Read the chapter in TB1 "Incorporating Deadlifts". You have the option to DL 1,2,3 x a week, for one or more work sets. I'd suggest you start off with the once-week option for one work set. See how that feels and adjust over time.

[Balaclava]

What exactly do you mean by deadlift setup? Sets and reps and what not?
I did 4 sets of 5 reps at 75% of my training max.

I ran pretty slow. I was able to swear pretty often.

You are probably right about doing SE first, as much as I want to do strength first and build up my 'reservoir' (and just lift in general). It would probably make all the cardio work easier too.

Nah I think you're right to go with Fighter + Base for your situation. It makes more sense if you've only been lifting for a short while.

It's most likely your DL. Not too many people can handle multiple sets of DL, it's pretty hard on the body and CNS. Scale back, start with 1 x week x 1 set option.

[Barkadion]

With all the respect to the comments. I'd strongly recommend seeing specialist (Doc, PT, etc). Major pain should be addressed.

[Blackmetalbunny]

I'm gonna go out on a limb here to say that we don't actually know where the problem is occurring.

1. You say you have experienced pain before stemming from runs and rucks. It might be from the runs and rucks. It might be the combination of DL + runs and rucks. It might be the combination of DL + pull-up for reps which are causing the problem. The problem might also not be because of your form when fresh, but from the last set when you're fatigued.

2. We don't know where the pain is emanating from - is it an isolated location? A general pain? Near your spine? Between lumbar disks? centre of muscle? Tendon insertion points? edge of muscle?

3. What kind of pain? Short and sharp? Numbing and dull? Isolated to a location? Always the same location? Is it always present? Or only during dynamic movements? Is the pain when you move in a certain pattern or whenever your move? What about walking, sitting, lying down, standing up? When does the pain go away?

4. You say you've trained for a year, have you noticed any pattern to when the pain will come on? After a deadlift day? After a short run? After a sprint? After a long run? After a ruck?

5. Is this the first time you've experienced this pain, or have you experienced this pain before? If so under what circumstances?

6. Deadlift form - what form are you using? Conventional, Sumo, RDL? What about grip - mixed grip - any chance you're supinating one hand over the other most of the time?

You should really consider these questions before seeing a doctor. Chances are - once you've at least considered these questions, you'll get a little bit of insight what might be the problem. If not, then at least if you tell the doctor more details, it can help guide him to conclusions which are more directed rather than "I have pain in my back".

Most of the time a pain is just a pain - these easily diagnosed pain can be acute or chronic and need to be addressed and not powered through. Sometimes, just sometimes, these pains are symptoms of a deep-seated chronic issue which are not stemming from your back, but something else in your training regiment, or life - this needs immediate attention.

If it is not because you pulled a muscle, my guess is that you might have a weak link somewhere in your posterior chain, this might potentially be in your upper back or hamstring, which might be forcing whichever part of your back which is experiencing the pain, to overcompensate and cause excessive strain. The other possibility is that it might be a movement pattern ingrained into the way you lift or ruck or jog.

Maybe consider the questions above, and post some videos of your first and last sets of squat, deadlift, benchpress, pull-up and rucking form. At least so the doctors can rule out non-contributing factors, while the other more experienced guys can potentially trouble-shoot where a breakdown in form might have happened.

[WeekendWarrior]

Did my second 30 minute run today. It wasn't near as bad today, although around 6-7 minutes in I started getting some pain in the mid to lower back and it stuck around for the rest of the run. Still, it wasn't like the crippling back-stiffening pain from yesterday. I definitely think its the deadlift, but again, hard to say for sure being I have a history.
I'll take Balaclava's advice and scale back on the DL's, stick with one set per week.
If I'm still getting major pain in 2-3 weeks, then I'm gonna set up a Dr's appointment up. If its less but still around by the end of the 8 weeks of BB I might still see one, just because I have a history of of back pain. It used to be in my upper back and shoulders, but I know that probably stems from years and years of leaning back in a computer chair with no physical activity, which could very well be part of this problem too.

As for what Blackmetalbunny said, I'll keep those questions in mind, especially if I go see a doctor.
Also, I didn't mean that I have been training for a year, I just meant that I have about a years worth of experience with lifting since I started in high school, so its kind of hard to say there is a pattern being that I only lifted off and on after high school.
Also, I do not use a mixed grip, although I tried it a couple weeks ago and it was pretty weird.