Struggling to do pull-ips

[MR_Boutros]

Hi members.

Hope I can get some assistance please?

I am really struggling to do more than 5 body weight pull-ups. I just can not seem to progress, not to mention the tendonitis flare up I also get when I perform pull-ups.
on page 84 of the original TB book, it says " body weight pull-ups should be substituted until you can hit 10 strict reps" The Mass protocol book also says this on one of the pages.

Does this mean I should do another exercise such as BB rows instead of the pull-ups, 5x5 BB rows?
Would I still incorporate pull-ups in the routine after the rows, so I get better at them or should I just scrap them completely as they do cause me pain in my elbow tendons when I do them.

Thank you for your help.

[TBPenguin]

Are you training at home or in a decently equipped gym?

[MR_Boutros]

Hi TBPenguin,

Thank you for replying.
I have a decent garage gym set up, with squat rack, dumbbells, Olympic plates and bars with a pulley system which attaches to the rack.
The rack also allows me to do dips and chins.

Thank you for your help.

Kind Regards

[MR_Boutros]

Are you training at home or in a decently equipped gym?

Hi TBPenguin,

Thank you for replying.
I have a decent garage gym set up, with squat rack, dumbbells, Olympic plates and bars with a pulley system which attaches to the rack.
The rack also allows me to do dips and chins.

Thank you for your help.

Kind Regards

[Reedy68]

Hi members.

Hope I can get some assistance please?

I am really struggling to do more than 5 body weight pull-ups. I just can not seem to progress, not to mention the tendonitis flare up I also get when I perform pull-ups.
on page 84 of the original TB book, it says " body weight pull-ups should be substituted until you can hit 10 strict reps" The Mass protocol book also says this on one of the pages.

Does this mean I should do another exercise such as BB rows instead of the pull-ups, 5x5 BB rows?
Would I still incorporate pull-ups in the routine after the rows, so I get better at them or should I just scrap them completely as they do cause me pain in my elbow tendons when I do them.

Thank you for your help.

Couple of things I am thinking.

1. You could use a resistance band for assisted pullups until you can build the strength to do them unaided.

2. Are you doing pullups or chinups? I think chinups have more 'bang for the buck' as you get some decent bicep development along the way. If you are doing chinups, you could try playing with grip width, might help with the tendonitis.

3. I had issues in the past with tendonitis close to the elbow doing chinups. Found that my hands wanted to turn in slightly towards a more neutral grip, but not quite that far. You could try a heavyish resistance band around the cross member on your rack, sit on the floor and do pulldowns, the band will be a bit more forgiving with grip position than a straight bar.

My tendonitis went when I moved from chinups to a lat pulldown with a close grip attachment that mimicked a better hand position. I'm not back on chinups as of this week, on MASS, will see how 3 x week chinups go

[TBPenguin]

I have a decent garage gym set up, with squat rack, dumbbells, Olympic plates and bars with a pulley system which attaches to the rack.
The rack also allows me to do dips and chins.

In my opinion it is hard on the body to be doing close to a rep max with low reps (up to 5 reps). That is, with ANY exercise, trying to repeatedly do 2 or 3 reps with a 3 rep max, as an example, is going to cause a problem sooner or later. Now with chin-ups or pull-ups, some people can get away with it if they are in a situation where rapid improvement is reasonable to expect. If somebody is having to work hard to make progress, they aren't in a situation where rapid improvement is reasonable to expect!

One of the factors in TB working go well is sub-maximal work at high frequency. Not doing 5 reps with a 5 rep max. Not trying to do multiple sets of 3 with a 5 rep max. For squats, deads, presses, with a 5 rep max weight, programs usually call for 1 or 2 reps. There are some programs that have the lifter do 3 or 4 sets of 3 - but that is only during one week out of three.

You see where this is going. If you are going to do pull-ups or chin-ups, treat them as any other lift. If all you had was a pull-up bar, then you'd need to think about doing 1 rep sets for a week, 2 rep sets for a week, 3 rep sets for a week, or something like that. But better, with just a pull-up bar, would be to use some sort of band assistance so you could work with a "12 rep max (around 70%) " and a "10 rep max (around 75%)" and so on. Alternatively, if you had access to a pulldown pulley, do the same. Thousands of guys have developed the ability to do pull-ups by starting with pull downs. Yes pulldowns are inferior overall to pull-ups, but given how many have used them, doing them for a few months to move on to the better lift seems acceptable.

So let your irritations heal, and in the meantime get yourself some bands, use the pulley system.

[MR_Boutros]

Hi members.

Hope I can get some assistance please?

I am really struggling to do more than 5 body weight pull-ups. I just can not seem to progress, not to mention the tendonitis flare up I also get when I perform pull-ups.
on page 84 of the original TB book, it says " body weight pull-ups should be substituted until you can hit 10 strict reps" The Mass protocol book also says this on one of the pages.

Does this mean I should do another exercise such as BB rows instead of the pull-ups, 5x5 BB rows?
Would I still incorporate pull-ups in the routine after the rows, so I get better at them or should I just scrap them completely as they do cause me pain in my elbow tendons when I do them.

Thank you for your help.

Couple of things I am thinking.

1. You could use a resistance band for assisted pullups until you can build the strength to do them unaided.

2. Are you doing pullups or chinups? I think chinups have more 'bang for the buck' as you get some decent bicep development along the way. If you are doing chinups, you could try playing with grip width, might help with the tendonitis.

3. I had issues in the past with tendonitis close to the elbow doing chinups. Found that my hands wanted to turn in slightly towards a more neutral grip, but not quite that far. You could try a heavyish resistance band around the cross member on your rack, sit on the floor and do pulldowns, the band will be a bit more forgiving with grip position than a straight bar.

My tendonitis went when I moved from chinups to a lat pulldown with a close grip attachment that mimicked a better hand position. I'm not back on chinups as of this week, on MASS, will see how 3 x week chinups go

Thank you for your reply.

I do have bands as well as a Pulley attachment for the squat rack at home. I might try seeing which ones work best and give me less pain.

Really appreciate your help.

Thank you and take care.

[MR_Boutros]

I have a decent garage gym set up, with squat rack, dumbbells, Olympic plates and bars with a pulley system which attaches to the rack.
The rack also allows me to do dips and chins.

In my opinion it is hard on the body to be doing close to a rep max with low reps (up to 5 reps). That is, with ANY exercise, trying to repeatedly do 2 or 3 reps with a 3 rep max, as an example, is going to cause a problem sooner or later. Now with chin-ups or pull-ups, some people can get away with it if they are in a situation where rapid improvement is reasonable to expect. If somebody is having to work hard to make progress, they aren't in a situation where rapid improvement is reasonable to expect!

One of the factors in TB working go well is sub-maximal work at high frequency. Not doing 5 reps with a 5 rep max. Not trying to do multiple sets of 3 with a 5 rep max. For squats, deads, presses, with a 5 rep max weight, programs usually call for 1 or 2 reps. There are some programs that have the lifter do 3 or 4 sets of 3 - but that is only during one week out of three.

You see where this is going. If you are going to do pull-ups or chin-ups, treat them as any other lift. If all you had was a pull-up bar, then you'd need to think about doing 1 rep sets for a week, 2 rep sets for a week, 3 rep sets for a week, or something like that. But better, with just a pull-up bar, would be to use some sort of band assistance so you could work with a "12 rep max (around 70%) " and a "10 rep max (around 75%)" and so on. Alternatively, if you had access to a pulldown pulley, do the same. Thousands of guys have developed the ability to do pull-ups by starting with pull downs. Yes pulldowns are inferior overall to pull-ups, but given how many have used them, doing them for a few months to move on to the better lift seems acceptable.

So let your irritations heal, and in the meantime get yourself some bands, use the pulley system.

Thank you for the reply.

I do like the idea of going to pull-downs as I do have a pulley attachment for the rack, and letting my injuries heal.
I will then definitely give your suggestion ago, in regards to 1 rep sets for a week, 2 rep sets for a week, 3 rep sets for a week.
I also have bands at home so could give those a try if I need some sort of assistance.

Really appreciate your help.
Thank you and take care.

[Barkadion]

Agree with TBP! I remember Pavel Tsatsoulin says in one of his books: “Just do one pullup every time you are in the room where your pullup bar hangs”. That is exactly what I did years back. Just multiple singles throughout a day without any programming. It does its magic.

I’m don’t like assisted pullups personally. But I do like inverted rows. This version can help with building real pullups:
https://youtu.be/bR59fPqWguM

Just my 2c.. Good luck!

[MR_Boutros]

Agree with TBP! I remember Pavel Tsatsoulin says in one of his books: “Just do one pullup every time you are in the room where your pullup bar hangs”. That is exactly what I did years back. Just multiple singles throughout a day without any programming. It does its magic.

I’m don’t like assisted pullups personally. But I do like inverted rows. This version can help with building real pullups:
https://youtu.be/bR59fPqWguM

Just my 2c.. Good luck!

This sounds like a good approach to try. I have been trying chins for years with no progress.
This would also assist with my tendonitis too.
Thank you for your help