Olympic lifts & variants

[Blackmetalbunny]

Hey guys, I would like to pick everyone's brains about incorporating the Oly lifts and their derivatives / variants.

While I recognise the reason for using the big power lifts (biggest bang for buck, greatest strength developer etc), is there any specific reason the Olympic lifts are given little love in the TB clusters? I know K.B. says that the Olympic lifts are perfectly viable exercises to incorporate, but I rarely see any one make mention about them.

Is it because:

1. They are technically demanding, whereas the powerlifting lifts are less technically demanding in comparison?

2. In terms of training time investment, hour for hour; you'd be able to manage far more weight just focusing on the big power lifts, whereas you'd be moving less weight with the Oly lifts in the same time investment taken to learn.

3. With the Oly lifts, they still require the big lifts to train 1st gear strength, so it makes more sense to go down to the absolute basics to build strength, hence lesser focus on the explosive lifts. Since you'd still have to use the big lifts to develop strength, it makes no sense to further complicate the programs by adding another move that requires a powerlifting move to complement it?

4. For our purposes, the techniques of the Oly lifts aren't immediately translatable to strength that would be used in conflict and emergency situations?

I'm just really curious as to why the Olympic lifts or even their simpler variants aren't given that much focus since weightlifters, pound for pound, can be stronger than powerlifters in some circumstances.

Is it any one specific reason, or combination of reasons from above, or is it something else that I didn't even touch on?

[Train_Hard_Live_Easy]

A combination of the above would be a safe bet.

I am NOT an olympic lifter, and never intend to be..... so whenever I do want to have a 'play' I never go beyond the power versions.

Power Clean is a favoured lift of mine, and indeed last year I included it within my training on a regular basis [5x5 training a la Bill Starr - his book Strongest shall survive may be old, but the information within is still gold] ..... but it was more about a change than wanting to get stronger... I was curious to see if there would be a carry over to my deadlift.... there was not..... I tend to use it within BB complexes and chains these days. That's not to say I won't utilise it within my strength program in the future... I enjoy it, it feels good, but I am enjoying the deadlifting at this time.

Power Snatch, not something I have done a whole lot of, and I can actually get all I want from the KB variations of the snatch [typically from the dead position - started and returned to the floor for each rep].... double KB Snatch, outside the legs and regular as well as from the dead position.

I have used the Snatch Grip deadlift as a variation [and actually will be using it later this year for a block or two], but the mobility required for this variation as well as the olympic lifts can be quite beyond the average gym goer.

So, it all depends upon the goal you have for yourself; basically if I were training as weight lifter, absolutely they would be within my program..... but there is nothing to stop you from including any of them within a block or two of your program..... bit of variation, some power development, 'exciting' the body in a different way than grinding lifts all the time.....

Hope that all makes sense

[RugbyGuy]

I used to do power cleans as a warm up for deadlift. Do power cleans until I miss a single, then do singles for deadlift until I get to my working weight.

Other than that, for me at least, the strength isn't what held my oly lift back, it was my technique. And I'm just not interested enough to try to truly master the technique needed to get good at these.

[WallBilly]

Not to mention injury potential, especially for older trainees.

A really good coach who I went to for help on my squat a couple of years ago was adamant that adding at least one olympic lift to your repertoire was good for explosiveness, power, and general athleticism. I had upper body flexibility issues with the pinning position on the power clean, so he tried to teach me the snatch.

Well, you end up in the air if you're doing it the way he was trying to teach me. With a bar above your head. And you have to come down out of the air.

I tweaked an ancient ACL injury and was out of business for 3 weeks.

Sticking with squats and deads, the ACL is fine, and the knees have never been in better shape. I get my power, explosiveness and athleticism from my Black HIC.

[DocOctagon]

Another reason might be that you get some "power conversion" training through HIC.

Power's derived from maximal-strength, and like SE requires some sort of conversion training if you want to maximize it's potential. Things like crisp KB swings (10 or under), plyo push-ups, heavy bag drills, and box jumps are all effective at harnessing max-strength and transforming it into power/power-endurance. Build up strength during your regular lifting days > convert to power during (certain) HIC. So doing Oly lifting might not be worth the extra time and effort it takes to get technically proficient.

That being said, there's nothing wrong at all with including Oly lifts occasionally. However, if using the percentages from the max-strength templates, I personally wouldn't go over 3 reps at any given time.

[Fedaykin]

I get my power, explosiveness and athleticism from my Black HIC.

This is the way I look at it.

[grouchyjarhead]

I was a dedicated weightlifter for a bit. Managed 90/125 as an under 77, far from elite but I really enjoyed the training.

My thoughts - truly learning the lifts takes a huge time commitment. Time most tactical athletes simply don't have. Most of your work is with submaximal weights (70% tended to be the sweet spot) and one bad lift can ruin your weekend in a hurry. I would say probably power clean or power snatch, and only if properly trained, would be the only applicable ones for TB. Even then I would probably trim the reps in half (e.g. 3/3/2/3/3/1 if using Operator). Obviously no deadlifts with this approach.

[Blackmetalbunny]

hmm, those are some interesting points, especially on the point about training and increasing your ability to generate power instead of training strength.

Thanks everyone for the pointer, it changes a few thoughts and approaches I had about integrating the lifts. Especially since I really do want to master the C&J and snatch at some point.

[StayGrey]

My thoughts - truly learning the lifts takes a huge time commitment. Time most tactical athletes simply don't have. Most of your work is with submaximal weights (70% tended to be the sweet spot) and one bad lift can ruin your weekend in a hurry.

These are the main reasons I don't bother with them. I find kettlebell snatches and push-presses are a solid alternative. I can't take the chance of going down with a lifting injury if I can avoid it.

[grouchyjarhead]

I think Pavel was right when he called kettlebell sport the poor man's Olympic lifts. They're a lot more forgiving. I personally stick to ballistic lifts with just kettlebells now.