Older man looking for advice on lifting

[OneOfManyRobs]

Hello!

I'm a 37 year old male, 6'1" and 220 lbs, working in conservation law enforcement. I had a fitness wake-up call earlier this year, when a fast hike up a mountain with a medical bag left me gasping and basically useless when I got to the patient. Since I had trained a bit with kettlebells a few years ago, I started doing Simple & Sinister right afterward. I'm about ready to hit the "Timeless Simple" standard of 10x10 swings and 1x10 Turkish Get Ups with a 32 kg kettlebell. While I like the program, I need something more to get my fitness to where it needs to be. Thus, I started the BB block this week, using the LSS + swings example out of TB II.

My goal is to be able to carry a 60 pound pack for 5 miles, with 3,000 feet of elevation gain, in 40 minutes, AND be useful on arrival (not gasping and about to fall over). Losing weight, gaining strength, and vastly increasing my overall anaerobic/aerobic conditioning are needed to be able to do that.

I've never done any serious barbell work before. While I have the Starting Strength book, being 40 pounds overweight has me concerned with the SS program of eating as much as I can cram down. Further, the single-minded focus on increasing lift numbers at the cost of everything else doesn't match my goals.

After I've completed the BB, my question is whether you think I should do the progressive programs outlined in TB, or a linear progression program like Greyskull LP or Starting Strength? I read this thread (http://tacticalbarbell.com/forum/viewto ... ?f=3&t=422), but a lot of the advice seemed aimed at someone about 15 years younger than I am. If you suggest a linear program, should I swap out the Operator/Fighter template with the LP lifts and keep the Black/Green template?

Thank you for your time!

[mikhou]

First, good for you for choosing to make a difference in your own health with your training and the health and safety of others with your choice of occupation. I hope that this post is coherent as I'm just kind of shooting from the hip.

Second, 37yo isn't an older guy by any means. You're right in the prime of your life. You can definitely get stronger and better conditioned at this point of your life, and you can maintain it for the rest of your life.

Well done for starting with BB. That's the right move. Build up that aerobic engine and then begin layering on top of that. I recently ran another round of BB and my resting heart rate went down several bpm even though I'm already in pretty good cardiovascular shape. I think that you'll find that running a BB phase will greatly prepare you for your continuation protocol.

Finally, regarding how to start barbell training, I would suggest that you do start with an LP. I personally prefer GSLP over SS, but I would go very easy with the AMRAP sets. In other words, don't just leave 1 rep in the tank; leave 2-4 reps in the tank. The reason that I recommend an LP is that since you have little experience with the barbell lifts, the frequency and the progression (starting with the bar) will give you a high number of reps to practice good form. Also, have someone with experience check your form periodically to ensure that you're not ingraining any bad habits. On GSLP, reset at least once and then work back up, and after that point, I would move to a TB template. That's my $.02, but you can do what you want. It just doesn't make sense to me for you to even try to find an E1RM when you have little experience with the barbell lifts in order to start with TB.

Also, you don't have to eat like a madman in order to run SS or GSLP. As you said, that's what is recommended if the focus is on gaining as much strength as possible. You can continue to eat like a responsible adult and still gain strength at a slower, but sustained pace. And the truth is since max strength isn't your primary goal it doesn't matter if you stall out at a lower caloric intake than is recommended by SS. You're still learning the lifts throughout that process and after a reset and ramp back up, you can then do a day of testing to determine what E1RMs to start TB with.

[OneOfManyRobs]

Thank you! I appreciate your response; it's exactly the information I needed. Once I complete BB, I'll do Operator/Black: Professional, subbing the LP lift program for the TB lift program on the max strength days. Both SS and GSLP have 3 day/week schedules, so it's an easy swap.

Thanks again for the info, I'll put it to good use.

[mikhou]

Thank you! I appreciate your response; it's exactly the information I needed. Once I complete BB, I'll do Operator/Black: Professional, subbing the LP lift program for the TB lift program on the max strength days. Both SS and GSLP have 3 day/week schedules, so it's an easy swap.

Thanks again for the info, I'll put it to good use.

That sounds like a plan. And after BB you may want to keep a few things in mind. I'm just shooting from the hip here based on your stated goals.
-Yes, run Black-Pro as it will keep an E day in your week.
-Consider mixing that E day with long runs, rucks, and Fun Runs (which I have found are excellent for building work capacity.)
-Consider mixing some shorter loaded carries into your conditioning (farmer's walks, suitcase carries, bear hug carries, etc.)
-When you do get to running a TB strength template, start with vanilla Operator and do 2 rounds (for a total of 12 weeks). Then feel free to experiment with it (Zulu, Fighter, Op I/A). Many of us on these forums have run all the templates at one time or another because different templates fit different seasons of life or changing goals better. In other words, BB+learning the lifts+those first 12 weeks of Operator give you a GREAT foundation for the future. After that, maintaining and improving can be done in different ways.

[Nick]

OP-

I agree with everything Mikhou said, and good on you for deciding to get after it.

Some points;

1) 37 isn't old. I'm 36, and I'm not old. 37 is only one year more than that.

2) 5 miles in 40 min with a 60 lbs ruck is pretty quick. That's 8 min miles. By contrast, US Army Air Assault School requires everyone to ruck 12 miles in 3 hours (15 min miles). I don't want to say you won't get there, but most hard-core army guys I've known average about 12 min miles with a ruck.

3) GSLP is a great program, I've used it before. I found doing weighted chin-ups with the lifting workouts and then adding in grease-the-groove chins and push-ups, as outlined in the book, was awesome and really boosted results. I did the GTG stuff in the evening while cleaning up, watching TV, etc, before bed. I could never make myself stick with Johnny Pain's Burpee challenge; it was too horrible.

4) Don't overthink the eating thing. No need to cram yourself full of milk, or any foolishness like that. Eat 3x meals per day with some protein in each one. Cut out snacks between meals. Don't resort to more compulsive behaviors until this stops working.

5) If your goals involve rucking, you need to ensure you include rucking in your endurance sessions.

Again, good luck and keep us updated.

[OneOfManyRobs]

Thanks, all! A quick clarification: the rucking goal is basically my response to what would be a worse-case scenario for injured patient in the backcountry. Think chest pains/difficulty breathing on the furthest peak in my area, on a day when fog is keeping the helicopter grounded. I'd need to get the O2 bag and AED there as quick as I can, and still be able to do CPR for a couple rounds until backup arrives. I'll definitely keep in mind that it's a very hard goal, and not injure myself trying to attain it. Testing it will be one of my Challenge Sessions. I'll do it once or twice a year and make programming adjustments accordingly.

I'll start working fun runs and rucking into my wekly long LSS day, for sure.

I was planning on learning the lifts after the BB/Block 1 is complete. I'll start working on them now, using the strength-first BB template.

Also, thanks for the encouragement on my age! A lot of the advice I was finding on lifting seemed aimed at the 16-25 year old, which was a bit discouraging.

[Nick]

No problem. Recommend starting a log on this forum. This has helped me stay accountable.

[mikhou]

I was planning on learning the lifts after the BB/Block 1 is complete. I'll start working on them now, using the strength-first BB template.

This is up to you. There is also value in doing the bodyweight SE work in BB as it gives your joints a break from the barbell and easily strengthens those joints in preparation for the next Continuation protocol. However, I personally prefer the strength-first template because I travel multiple times per year for up to a month at a time and find that during those travel periods, I'm usually doing bodyweight exercises. So those kind of give my joints a break from the bar. Since I don't like to be away from the barbell too long, I usually run the strength-first template when I do BB. If you're going to start with the barbell, I wouldn't see it as a bad thing to start GSLP with BB.

[wcu25rs]

just to be blunt, I would realize that your goal of carrying 60lb over the course of 5 miles at an 8 minute pace is 99.9% undoable, not merely on an individual level, but because that would be some extremely rare territory(if that is even possible and I dont really think it is). the reason i say that is that I wouldnt want it to decrease your motivation not hitting a goal that really isnt attainable. I'm a red-carded wildland firefighter and my personal best in the pack test done on a track(the test is 45lb pack, 3 miles in 45 minutes or less) is 34:xx. and that is done at a power walk pace as jogging it isnt allowed.

Aside from that, good luck on the rest of your goals and your journey in TB. Ive really seen great results doing TB and how it translates onto the fireground. Hopefully you see the same in your job. Oh and like others mentioned, starting with BaseBuilding is a must.

[close_fox]

Hello!

I'm a 37 year old male, 6'1" and 220 lbs, working in conservation law enforcement. I had a fitness wake-up call earlier this year, when a fast hike up a mountain with a medical bag left me gasping and basically useless when I got to the patient. Since I had trained a bit with kettlebells a few years ago, I started doing Simple & Sinister right afterward. I'm about ready to hit the "Timeless Simple" standard of 10x10 swings and 1x10 Turkish Get Ups with a 32 kg kettlebell. While I like the program, I need something more to get my fitness to where it needs to be. Thus, I started the BB block this week, using the LSS + swings example out of TB II.

My goal is to be able to carry a 60 pound pack for 5 miles, with 3,000 feet of elevation gain, in 40 minutes, AND be useful on arrival (not gasping and about to fall over). Losing weight, gaining strength, and vastly increasing my overall anaerobic/aerobic conditioning are needed to be able to do that.

That is an absolutely wild rucking goal

I've never done any serious barbell work before. While I have the Starting Strength book, being 40 pounds overweight has me concerned with the SS program of eating as much as I can cram down. Further, the single-minded focus on increasing lift numbers at the cost of everything else doesn't match my goals.

6'1" 220lbs is not necessarily 40lbs overweight. Depends on what kind of lbs it is. Eat to fuel performance, let performance dictate your weight, however you want to say it.

After I've completed the BB, my question is whether you think I should do the progressive programs outlined in TB, or a linear progression program like Greyskull LP or Starting Strength? I read this thread (http://tacticalbarbell.com/forum/viewto ... ?f=3&t=422), but a lot of the advice seemed aimed at someone about 15 years younger than I am. If you suggest a linear program, should I swap out the Operator/Fighter template with the LP lifts and keep the Black/Green template?

If ruck conditioning is your #1 goal, I'm not tracking why LP (or Operator) would be in the mix. My .02: Strength first BB, using the lifting sessions as a barbell familiarization. Then live in Fighter+Green with one (maybe two) ruck per week. And cycle in a ruck specific plan 2-3 times per year. Lots of .mil sites have them. MTI's pre-AFG legs & lungs plan is also a good one. I also hope your agency has some resources for you if they are expecting you to do anything close to the 40min feat you describe above.

Thank you for your time!