Former SF (18 series)/current Fed LEO - ask me almost anything

[Vagabond]

Interesting stuff, thanks.

[Tirofijo]

Hi, im not sure if youre still answering questions but if you are, I have a few.

1) Can you talk a little about the federal law enforcement side of things? What (do you think) were the reasons you got the job? How does life as a federal agent compare to life as a SF soldier? How did you find the federal law enforcement training?

2) What was the running like at SFAS?

3) What would you say are some good fitness standards (aside from maxing out the APFT) someone should strive to hit before attending SFAS?

4) Did bootcamp, AIT, and airborne prepare you well for the rigors of SFAS?

1) That's a broad question. (For one, there's so much different work in law enforcement. From straight desk jobs doing admin work to teams conducting entries/high risk warrants or working overseas.)

But the two jobs are very, very different (since I'm not on any sort of tactical team). I've done a few things in high threat locations where my military experience was valued, but the day to day jobs between the two are quite different.

Training was fine but not overly demanding and people almost never wash out.

2) PT test and some unknown distance runs done at the fastest pace you can sustain (not a group run). You never know how far the runs will be. You are just told to follow the course. Of course you are being timed. It messes with some people.

3) First, as I've mentioned previously, its not just SFAS you have to worry about. You don't have to be a stud that has s 2x bodyweight deadlift, 1.5x bw bench, but it would help. I would advise you not to consider going until you can do a 12 mile ruck in well under 3 hours without it breaking you off and leaving you wrecked.

4. Not at all. If you are really in shape, you might lose fitness in bootcamp, AIT and jump school

[NFARCH]

Then there were the guys that passed land nav and didn't quit yet weren't selected. Those are called 24-day Non-Selects. (Selection was 24 days then. It might be 21 now). Maybe they barely passed the PT test, and they were slow on all the timed run and ruck marches, and the cadre didn't like what they saw when watching them during the team events. I was never privy to the machinations of the Selection cadre, but I assume they go over everyone's performance and decide on whether they pass or fail.

I'd say its a good mix between those three things. But that's just my observation from a single time at SFAS.

That's gotta hurt. Were they ever given some avenue back or was it the end of the line as far as SF?

No, you could go to Selection again, assuming you couldn't didn't get NTR'ed. (See my previous post about NTR.)

In the NG, though, your NG company might not want to spend one of its limited SFAS spots on someone that had already gotten a shot and didn't make it. If you were in the regular Army, you'd go back to your unit and have to do some time there before getting another spot.

Even the NTR could be waived, in theory, but I don't know how that works. I suspect you could go back to your unit, keep your head down and perform well, do a deployment, have great PT scores, get a recommendation from your Commander, etc, but I'm just speculating.

Officers only got one shot at it, based on how their year-group system works. There was a very limited window when they could go to Selection, basically when they are a new Captain. I don't know how that works either.

Makes sense. A buddy of mine was in SAS years ago, he mentioned that a large percentage of soldiers in the unit had gone through selection more than once. For some it was even their 3rd try before making it. I was curious how SF handled business in comparison.

[PGO]

Tiro,

Thanks so much for doing this!

It's funny, I'm 30 - turning 31 shortly - and was just researching the NG SF program you went through ...

1.) I too have a family, kids and more on the way and very good career ... would you do it today in your current situation?

2.) it looks like a 6-yr commitment and at least 2 of those are all training - then as you said there's other schools you could do after that - in addition to the weekend/month + 2 weeks yr commitment.

My question: and this may vary since you were in 10 yrs ago -- do you think there is a high possibility of getting deployed in those remaining 4 yrs?

Do you mind sharing how many times you were actually deployed in those 6 yrs?

Do you think it was less than AD SF units?

Thanks so much for doing this again!

[Tirofijo]

Tiro,

Thanks so much for doing this!

It's funny, I'm 30 - turning 31 shortly - and was just researching the NG SF program you went through ...

1.) I too have a family, kids and more on the way and very good career ... would you do it today in your current situation?

2.) it looks like a 6-yr commitment and at least 2 of those are all training - then as you said there's other schools you could do after that - in addition to the weekend/month + 2 weeks yr commitment.

My question: and this may vary since you were in 10 yrs ago -- do you think there is a high possibility of getting deployed in those remaining 4 yrs?

Do you mind sharing how many times you were actually deployed in those 6 yrs?

Do you think it was less than AD SF units?

Thanks so much for doing this again!

I didn't have a family when I enlisted. Hard to say what I would have done back then if I did. I had the desire to do something meaningful, to serve my country, etc, so maybe I would have done it. But I spend enough time away from my family now and I don't like it - so maybe I would have had no desire.

One question is if you'll move your family to Bragg for the 2+years you are in the Q course. It might be hard on your wife. She'll be living in a new town and you'll be out in the field a lot of the time anyway. (the MOS phase and language are the only times you can expect to be home regularly. The rest of the time you'll mostly be out at Camp Mackall.) Most guard guys didn't bring their family to Bragg.

I spent 3.5 years on active duty for training. Basic training to the end of the Q course. (Arabic and a few injuries made my training pipeline a little longer than some.)

I deployed once (I transferred to a company that was deploying because I was in a hurry to get in the fight.) I got out right before another deployment. I had just started my current job and I knew the deployment was going to be a mess. It was to Iraq in the waning days of that war. So the ODA were kept on a tight leash and not allowed to kick up trouble. They were pretty miserable.

The op tempo has slowed but I'd expect you'll deploy during your time. Don't join if you don't want to fight.

[danteh]

First off I'd like to say thanks for doing this AMA. I have been trying to find an AMA by a SF member for quite some time now.

I am currently in the preparation stage to apply for a Canadian SOF unit. Obviously the selection processes are different but I am more interested in the fitness aspects of my preparation. You mentioned doing the operator + green template. As someone with an average fitness level, would you recommend that as the best course of action? Would you recommend anything else on top of that?

Also did you run Operator than green? Or both at the same time? If both could you outline a little how you structured it? I am finding a little difficult to combine the two effectively.

[Aelian]

First off I'd like to say thanks for doing this AMA. I have been trying to find an AMA by a SF member for quite some time now.

I am currently in the preparation stage to apply for a Canadian SOF unit. Obviously the selection processes are different but I am more interested in the fitness aspects of my preparation. You mentioned doing the operator + green template. As someone with an average fitness level, would you recommend that as the best course of action? Would you recommend anything else on top of that?

Also did you run Operator than green? Or both at the same time? If both could you outline a little how you structured it? I am finding a little difficult to combine the two effectively.

I'm not Tiro, but I'll put my two bits in on Op/Green. First, Op + Green is very doable, I've run it on more than one occasion with excellent results. I kept it simple, 3 E + 3 Strength per week. Minimal cluster for strength. Remember to add speed to your E sessions (assuming you've run Base Building or already have a sufficient aerobic base through military). The way I set my week up was 2 traditional Es like Fun-Runs and longer tempo runs, plus a speed oriented grind session like Hill Sprints or Fast 5 at close to max pace. I know those are technically HIC but they still fit the bill.

But if you're preparing for SOF, then running Op in my opinion is not the correct ratio of strength to endurance to strength-endurance. The top physical qualities for SF are endurance and strength endurance. TB teaches that max-strength aids in developing strength-endurance (which is correct) so it needs to be on your list but just not as high up as E. If I were in your shoes I'd run Fighter Bangkok + Green, which in my opinion offers the very best training ratio for the qualities needed for SOF.

Also what factors in is what qualities you're currently weak or strong in of course.

[danteh]

First off I'd like to say thanks for doing this AMA. I have been trying to find an AMA by a SF member for quite some time now.

I am currently in the preparation stage to apply for a Canadian SOF unit. Obviously the selection processes are different but I am more interested in the fitness aspects of my preparation. You mentioned doing the operator + green template. As someone with an average fitness level, would you recommend that as the best course of action? Would you recommend anything else on top of that?

Also did you run Operator than green? Or both at the same time? If both could you outline a little how you structured it? I am finding a little difficult to combine the two effectively.

I'm not Tiro, but I'll put my two bits in on Op/Green. First, Op + Green is very doable, I've run it on more than one occasion with excellent results. I kept it simple, 3 E + 3 Strength per week. Minimal cluster for strength. Remember to add speed to your E sessions (assuming you've run Base Building or already have a sufficient aerobic base through military). The way I set my week up was 2 traditional Es like Fun-Runs and longer tempo runs, plus a speed oriented grind session like Hill Sprints or Fast 5 at close to max pace. I know those are technically HIC but they still fit the bill.

But if you're preparing for SOF, then running Op in my opinion is not the correct ratio of strength to endurance to strength-endurance. The top physical qualities for SF are endurance and strength endurance. TB teaches that max-strength aids in developing strength-endurance (which is correct) so it needs to be on your list but just not as high up as E. If I were in your shoes I'd run Fighter Bangkok + Green, which in my opinion offers the very best training ratio for the qualities needed for SOF.

Also what factors in is what qualities you're currently weak or strong in of course.

My weakness is my body weight exercises and running (not the cardio aspect but the discomfort that comes from running). I can ruck for days but when it comes to pushups and pullups I am no good. And when I run my ankles feel like lava is flowing through them. Its getting better tho.

I was going to do the Op template MWF with Bench, Front Squats and Pullups. TTS I was going to do a run (2.4km to 5km) then Green endurance sessions. The selection process has a timed 2.4km, 5km and 8km run during it so I need to incorporate that. And Sunday would be my rest day. I dont have access to my book now so I cant check Fighter Bangkok but I think Operator would actually be good for me because another aspect of the selection is 1RM bench and reps on bench (175x15, 165x17, 155x18 and 145x28 to get max points).

[Tirofijo]

F You mentioned doing the operator + green template. As someone with an average fitness level, would you recommend that as the best course of action? Would you recommend anything else on top of that?

Also did you run Operator than green? Or both at the same time? If both could you outline a little how you structured it? I am finding a little difficult to combine the two effectively.

I'm not qualified to give advice on the Tactical Barbell templates. You should be asking K.B. those questions.

I've never run Green but it looks good in my humble opinion to prepared one for most SOF tryouts and selections. I'd do it as prescribed and only make changes if and when you are sure it's not working.

[danteh]

F You mentioned doing the operator + green template. As someone with an average fitness level, would you recommend that as the best course of action? Would you recommend anything else on top of that?

Also did you run Operator than green? Or both at the same time? If both could you outline a little how you structured it? I am finding a little difficult to combine the two effectively.

I'm not qualified to give advice on the Tactical Barbell templates. You should be asking K.B. those questions.

I've never run Green but it looks good in my humble opinion to prepared one for most SOF tryouts and selections. I'd do it as prescribed and only make changes if and when you are sure it's not working.

Oh I thought you said you ran green my miss understood. Did you run the operator template? I am trying to figure out what the best cluster would be. I figured shoulder strength would suite me better during selection rather than chest strength. Would you recommend the Front squat, OHP, WPU cluster (grunt)?