After 40 club

[Barkadion]

I like to play around with some other stuff at the margins (e.g., when I'm transitioning from endurance to strength emphases, and/or I want to put a little more attention to a smidge of bodybuilding), but overall I think the way to go is Ye Ole OP I/A with a keen eye to auto regulation. If I feel great and want to push, by the latitude is there. If I don't feel so great, then likewise for just taking a day off and picking up where I left off in 24-48 hours. That's the template I'll spend most of my year in.

Sounds very good... So,basically you go flexible on the days off all year round. Have you noticed how different your progression (if therr is any difference at all) VS standard way of straight shooting through the template?

[J-Madd]

When I've gone over to a heavy emphasis on auto-regulation in the past, I've had better results than otherwise. That needs to be qualified a bit: of course when I was in my twenties and smashing a Westside template with reckless abandon while eating 4000 cal/day, I made my best pure strength progress, but those days are in the distant past - and they are frankly not missed. Anyway, when I did Perry's "Squat Everyday Approach" (Barkadion might remember me talking about that on another forum) I made some of my best strength progress ever and that template works entirely on a "Go when you are feeling week, and rest when you are feeling badly" principle. When I train that way, I take few back-off weeks, I have fewer stale workouts, and I just generally feel better. For example, my bench press has really sucked since I lost 50lb of blubber in 2013. Earlier this year I experimented something like with the floating version of OP I/A (I think it was late January to late May), and I got my bench press back to just shy of where it was back in 2013.

[Barkadion]

When I've gone over to a heavy emphasis on auto-regulation in the past, I've had better results than otherwise. That needs to be qualified a bit: of course when I was in my twenties and smashing a Westside template with reckless abandon while eating 4000 cal/day, I made my best pure strength progress, but those days are in the distant past - and they are frankly not missed. Anyway, when I did Perry's "Squat Everyday Approach" (Barkadion might remember me talking about that on another forum) I made some of my best strength progress ever and that template works entirely on a "Go when you are feeling week, and rest when you are feeling badly" principle. When I train that way, I take few back-off weeks, I have fewer stale workouts, and I just generally feel better. For example, my bench press has really sucked since I lost 50lb of blubber in 2013. Earlier this year I experimented something like with the floating version of OP I/A (I think it was late January to late May), and I got my bench press back to just shy of where it was back in 2013.

Yes, I remember

[TBPenguin]

55 here, have been doing the big compounds hard for about 30 years. Zulu I/A worked very well for me. Am thinking of trying the new Operator I/A.

Agree with the coach here - frequent easy weeks. Six weeks maximum without an easy week, but then it will really be needed. Three weeks hard, one week easy prevents getting run down. Easy weeks for me doesn't mean a week off. Instead I do less stressful stuff.

Need more warmup sets before doing anything hard.

Benefit from a little more attention to shoulder, hip, knee mobility work in the evenings. Just a few minutes helps quite a bit.

The concern I have is that past 40 we start losing muscle. So rather than avoiding hypertrophy, I'd rather encourage it. If any of you other After 40 Club members have ideas or experiences along these lines, would be interested in your insights.

[Train_Hard_Live_Easy]

Agree with the coach here - frequent easy weeks. Six weeks maximum without an easy week, but then it will really be needed. Three weeks hard, one week easy prevents getting run down. Easy weeks for me doesn't mean a week off. Instead I do less stressful stuff.

Need more warmup sets before doing anything hard.

Benefit from a little more attention to shoulder, hip, knee mobility work in the evenings. Just a few minutes helps quite a bit.

The concern I have is that past 40 we start losing muscle. So rather than avoiding hypertrophy, I'd rather encourage it. If any of you other After 40 Club members have ideas or experiences along these lines, would be interested in your insights.

Agreed with everything here....but the biggest point, and is one I missed out on my earlier post, is the loss of muscle mass..... a little hypertrohpy training is a definite......for myself every now and again I would run a 2 week block of hypertrophy work.... nothing crazy, but lighter weights, higher reps and decreased rest times.. and found this worked well... and beginning of last year I ran a 3 month strength cycle in which I would include assistance work within my session

ie. DL for Strength Mon....then next session would have another strength focus [eg. OH Press or Squat], and have RDL for 4 x 8/10 as part of the session.....basically I would work the main movements in every session [Push, Pull, Hip, Knee with ONLY one being strength focus] and whatever was not the strenght focus of the session would be run on a 4x 8-12 protocol.

Now that I have started TB, I can see hypertrophy work coming in the guise of some of the HIC sessions..... or simply revert to my 2 week block of hypertrohpy work before getting back to another round of TB Fighter protocol.

Nice reminder, TBPenguin..... cheers

[Barkadion]

I've asked myself the same question about necessity of hypertrophy work at older age. So.. I am thinking out-loud now..

Muscle loss as is inevitable as we age. Maintaining the strength and staying in injury free training as long as possible can and should become the priority at some point of life. TB has it all covered by balancing out max strength and conditioning domains. So, I am not sure if the hypertrophy should be squeezed into the schedule. Unless aesthetic is a priority.. Just my 2c of thinking..

[WallBilly]

55 here, . . . .

Hallelujah, I'm not the oldest one here! Got me by a year, I'm 54.

Agree with the coach here - frequent easy weeks. Six weeks maximum without an easy week, but then it will really be needed. Three weeks hard, one week easy prevents getting run down. Easy weeks for me doesn't mean a week off. Instead I do less stressful stuff.

OK, I get that. But doesn't classic TB take care of that all by itself? The progression 70-80-90 then 75-85-95 means that every three weeks, the load is actually pretty light, either 70% or 75% of 1RM or TM. Would you not consider those to be "easy" weeks? I guess if you're doing I/A and pushing it way past 5 sets, not.

I've mentioned on the old reddit board that I don't feel too guilty if I take off an HIC or LSS occasionally, to aid in recovery in my dinosaur phase of life.

I'm not that concerned about losing muscle yet, what I don't want to do is the slow, painful decline that I see a lot of older people go through.

I've lifted for the most part my whole life to one degree or another, after I found out at age 22 that my knees felt like shit after standing up most of the day if I did not lift, but they felt fine if I did, even if I ran a lot. The last 3 years I have been religiously dedicated to the big lifts through starting strength and TB, and I hate to repeat myself, but my 50-ish knee pain, hip pain and back pain are all a thing of the past thanks to the barbell, and I still play ice hockey (goalie) 2-3 times a week 7 months a year.

[K.B.]

55 here, . . . .

Hallelujah, I'm not the oldest one here! Got me by a year, I'm 54.

Agree with the coach here - frequent easy weeks. Six weeks maximum without an easy week, but then it will really be needed. Three weeks hard, one week easy prevents getting run down. Easy weeks for me doesn't mean a week off. Instead I do less stressful stuff.

OK, I get that. But doesn't classic TB take care of that all by itself? The progression 70-80-90 then 75-85-95 means that every three weeks, the load is actually pretty light, either 70% or 75% of 1RM or TM. Would you not consider those to be "easy" weeks? I guess if you're doing I/A and pushing it way past 5 sets, not.

I've mentioned on the old reddit board that I don't feel too guilty if I take off an HIC or LSS occasionally, to aid in recovery in my dinosaur phase of life.

I'm not that concerned about losing muscle yet, what I don't want to do is the slow, painful decline that I see a lot of older people go through.

I've lifted for the most part my whole life to one degree or another, after I found out at age 22 that my knees felt like shit after standing up most of the day if I did not lift, but they felt fine if I did, even if I ran a lot. The last 3 years I have been religiously dedicated to the big lifts through starting strength and TB, and I hate to repeat myself, but my 50-ish knee pain, hip pain and back pain are all a thing of the past thanks to the barbell, and I still play ice hockey (goalie) 2-3 times a week 7 months a year.

You can certainly run standard TB as is and self-regulate, this short work cycle is just an option for those that need it. Whether this applies depends on what template you do, your current#s, how hard you go during conditioning, food, living conditions etc. Two people running black + op can both have very different workloads depending on the details. If it ain't broke don't fix it.

[K.B.]

I agree muscle mass is important when you hit the age of your personal decline. If you're running a 3 or 4 day TB template, and your nutrition's dialed in, you should be putting on muscle mass. I use the phrase "avoiding hypertrophy" in the books with sarcoplasmic hypertrophy in mind, NOT muscle mass in general. There's some debate about the sarcoplasmic vs myofibril hypertrophy these days - but I subscribe to the theory that there is a difference. I've seen it with my own training and others when it comes to running typical BB splits vs traditional low rep heavy weight strength training. Have a look at gymnasts or professional MMA fighters - there's a spectrum of muscle mass ranging from pretty big, to thin and wiry. How you set-up your TB protocols will allow you to manipulate where you want to be on that spectrum.

In my experience session volume + food intake + manipulating conditioning load trumps lowering the weight and rest interval. This is the general TB guide for putting on some beef:

1. Use a 3 or 4 day template (Op or Zulu)
2. Bump up to at least 4 work sets per exercise. This one's important.
3. Run Black Protocol (1 E every other week/maximum duration - 30 minutes). So 2 HICs every week. 1 E every other week (optional).
4. Ensure that your food intake matches your weight gain goal.
5. Choose HICs that are advantageous/complementary to your goal of maximizing muscle and power. Use GCs, sprints, things that contain dips, swings, pull-ups etc.
6. Use Creatine Monohydrate.

Here's another thing. Just because you can train like a Navy SEAL doesn't mean you should. If it doesn't align with your goals you shouldn't be doing it. If you're training for general health, muscle mass, and being a machine in your mid 40s and beyond, then you have no business running Green protocol. You have no business running Base more than once or twice a year.

Training like an operator is not the same as training to be healthy. Operators frequently have atrocious hormonal profiles (low testosterone/high cortisol/depleted mineral-vitamin levels) due to the high mileage and constant training. If you don't have to train like that why would you? If you do decide to train like them (Green protocol, extreme endurance etc.) then understand you will be paying the price in other areas like strength, hormones, bones and joints.

TB is designed to be customized for your personal situation (which can change). If you're an Operator, the tools are here. If you're a power/speed athlete, the tools are here. If you're somewhere in between, the tools are here. If you're 50+ and you decide you want to do a Go-Ruck or Spartan Beast, then simply re-arrange the pieces/templates/protocols to fit your new goal.

[WallBilly]

I agree muscle mass is important when you hit the age of your personal decline. If you're running a 3 or 4 day TB template, and your nutrition's dialed in, you should be putting on muscle mass. I use the phrase "avoiding hypertrophy" in the books with sarcoplasmic hypertrophy in mind, NOT muscle mass in general. There's some debate about the sarcoplasmic vs myofibril hypertrophy these days - but I subscribe to the theory that there is a difference. I've seen it with my own training and others when it comes to running typical BB splits vs traditional low rep heavy weight strength training. Have a look at gymnasts or professional MMA fighters - there's a spectrum of muscle mass ranging from pretty big, to thin and wiry. How you set-up your TB protocols will allow you to manipulate where you want to be on that spectrum.

In my experience session volume + food intake + manipulating conditioning load trumps lowering the weight and rest interval. This is the general TB guide for putting on some beef:

1. Use a 3 or 4 day template (Op or Zulu)
2. Bump up to at least 4 work sets per exercise. This one's important.
3. Run Black Protocol (1 E every other week/maximum duration - 30 minutes). So 2 HICs every week. 1 E every other week (optional).
4. Ensure that your food intake matches your weight gain goal.
5. Choose HICs that are advantageous/complementary to your goal of maximizing muscle and power. Use GCs, sprints, things that contain dips, swings, pull-ups etc.
6. Use Creatine Monohydrate.

Here's another thing. Just because you can train like a Navy SEAL doesn't mean you should. If it doesn't align with your goals you shouldn't be doing it. If you're training for general health, muscle mass, and being a machine in your mid 40s and beyond, then you have no business running Green protocol. You have no business running Base more than once or twice a year.

Training like an operator is not the same as training to be healthy. Operators frequently have atrocious hormonal profiles (low testosterone/high cortisol/depleted mineral-vitamin levels) due to the high mileage and constant training. If you don't have to train like that why would you? If you do decide to train like them (Green protocol, extreme endurance etc.) then understand you will be paying the price in other areas like strength, hormones, bones and joints.

TB is designed to be customized for your personal situation (which can change). If you're an Operator, the tools are here. If you're a power/speed athlete, the tools are here. If you're somewhere in between, the tools are here. If you're 50+ and you decide you want to do a Go-Ruck or Spartan Beast, then simply re-arrange the pieces/templates/protocols to fit your new goal.

K.B., this is an awesome post. It makes so much sense, and aligns with my personal experience.

Just yesterday, at the end of my 90% week on OP/Black, I decided to take a 5.5 mile LSS run after walking behind a lawn mower for 90 minutes. Gee, I wonder why my hips were pissed off at me this morning? (They are occasionally sore, though for the most part the barbell has fixed them.)

I am going to go back and completely re-design my program and philosophy based on this post.

Thanks, man.