Green2Blue wrote:
Those guys that claim they don't count are liars or genetic freaks. Most of them are lifetime athletes. They are the exception, not the rule.
It is just my opinion that, for most people, you MUST count to get good results. If you don't you're just shooting at a target with your eyes closed.
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Your statements is a bit bold. And wrong. Most people don't need to count food , they just need to know what to pick . Only one who really need to count food are weight class athletes, and bodybuilders. (and that also depends how serious they are).
If you cut out junk , alcohol , minimize wheats ; keep carb intake from cooked potatoes, rice, vegetables , oats and fruit; and eat fish, meat, eggs, cottage cheese and some healthy fats, you will see that you dont need to count food.
Green2Blue wrote:
Those guys that claim they don't count are liars or genetic freaks. Most of them are lifetime athletes. They are the exception, not the rule.
It is just my opinion that, for most people, you MUST count to get good results. If you don't you're just shooting at a target with your eyes closed.
.
Your statements is a bit bold. And wrong. Most people don't need to count food , they just need to know what to pick . Only one who really need to count food are weight class athletes, and bodybuilders. (and that also depends how serious they are).
If you cut out junk , alcohol , minimize wheats ; keep carb intake from cooked potatoes, rice, vegetables , oats and fruit; and eat fish, meat, eggs, cottage cheese and some healthy fats, you will see that you dont need to count food.
Then we agree to disagree. That's fine. Not everyone has to agree.
Appetite is a genetic variable. How many people have you heard of can't gain or lose weight "no matter what"?
Most people on this planet that attempt to actively control their body composition fail. People make fun of weight watchers all the time, but it's one of the most successful weight loss tools out there, and it's just another form of counting.
You yourself said if bodybuilders and weight class athletes (masters of body composition) that are serious need to count. If I want the best control over my body composition shouldn't I mimic the practices of those that get the best results?
I'm not telling anyone they have to count to see results. I'm telling you that if you want the best results you better be lucky, or you better count.
As I said, it depends where you are and what are your goals.
If we are talking about sub 10% body fat , then yes, you probably need to count food. But for vast majority of people, counting is just another "stress" and far less sustainable in a long run.For some reasonable changes in body composition and for tactical athlete or any athlete who is not dependent on weight, counting is not necessary. Following basic guidelines is easier in a long run, and yields most of results... (You know that 20/80 rule)
RescueStrong4205 wrote:Hey guys I have a quick question about nutrition and body recomp. I'm about 215 at 6'2 and am really looking to change my body comp and possibly get a little lighter. I'm not a crossfitter but admire their athleticism and body comp. Iv tried counting calories, carb cycling, using templates etc but always fall off after a couple of weeks because it does my head in counting everything and I cant see it as something sustainable long term. I know PN has been mentioned before and was just wondering if eating 4 meals based on hand size is adequate enough to support body comp goals as well as training and life (Im a career firefighter and also am lucky enough to work a great second job overseeing firefighter cpat and skill training.) My biggest goal is to create a lifestyle that will have me training well into my older age and eating well and practically. Some guys are also interested in this at the hall. We read so much about cutting and bulking bust most of us just want to perform well and look decent year round. I don't need or want to look like a guy who is ready to step on stage but I have always looked at guys like Ross Enamait who are in great shape and are lean and athletic yet don't count calories or macros. Thanks, Matt.
From what I gather your goals are:
1. Lose weight/become lighter.
2. Don't want to count cals/macros.
In light of that:
1. Kb's advice is excellent. Count everything for a short period of time so later you can eyeball and drop the counting.
2. Have you run Base yet? Most people lose weight during Base.
3. Precision Nutrition isn't based around eating 4 hand sized meals a day. There's much more to it than that.
Great info so far guys. I love reading about the different opinions and styles of eating. I think the biggest thing for myself is to just stop overthinking and create these good habits. The common theme I see is good choices over time and establishing a routine. I don't drink any alcohol and never have. I was a decent athlete growing up and drinking was something I stayed away from because I knew it wouldn't help me on the field and it is something that has carried over to today.
I was on shift yesterday and did some reading and had a lot of discussion with the guys. We came up with some common ideas on what we all need to change. The biggest factors for us are Sleep and Nutrition. We are all fairly active but to often do we eat "randomly" and our sleep schedules off the job have to get better because we don't sleep much on the job. Station meals going forward are going to be planed in advance.
I'm going to take this as a step by step approach and slowly introduce new habits. I purchased a 40oz Takeya Bottle to make sure I stay hydrated and take in more water then I have been. I'm going "do something every day", even a walk just to get moving or some mobility work on my off days. Finally i'm going to focus on eating cleaner and avoiding foods that I know are bad, the biggest thing here is making sure I have food prepared so when I'm in a bind for time I can make good decisions and eat consistently and not "randomly". Here is a great article I found with a great calculator as well by Dr. Nadolsky. It preaches much of what has been said here. He refers to his consistent meals as "go to meals".
Your Results
YOUR MAINTENANCE CALORIES: 3147
YOUR DAILY TARGET CALORIES: 2518
Your Starting Macros:
PROTEIN: 172
FATS: 70
CARBS: 300
CALORIES PER MEAL: 630 x 4
Heres a recent training pic for reference. I'm not unhealthy by any means but I am looking to get back to the body comp I had as an athlete.
Lets keep this discussion going if possible, I think the discussion will help a lot of people. Ill check in here with my progress and Ill be starting a training log soon as well.
I too have been down that body comp road, and I think one thing that needs constant reminding is "Don't miss the forest for the trees".
Body composition by definition just is, we assign a process or periods of re-composition because that's how humans best measurement progress. Beyond that, there really is no end in sight for Body Comping. Probably more so than your training which has a end-construct (end of block, end of cycle, new exercises, new goals). The end point of training might be arbitrary, but it can be defined.
In contrast, body composition has no end, it just is. Every one can drop that additional 1% of BF, see more vascularity, see more definition, add another inch on the biceps etc etc. So it's key to keep your head screwed on tight and to keep an eye on specific metrics, and once you hit your short or mid-term goal, then it's about reevaluating what you want next. You can't exactly freeze your body in time.
Like others have pointed out, there are somethings which negatively impact your BC progress and targets, but then again; are you going to always be that guy that doesn't drink, eats clean, eats at specific timings? To what extent are you going to let your fitness goals impact your life (social, familial, professional etc?)
Learning about strength training, conditioning, nutrition, body recomposition is relatively easy, the hard part is achieving a balance in your life. After all, when all is said and done and you've lived a life, would you rather be thinking "this was a good life, and I'm happy with what I've done" or "I wish I ate more pizza"?
P.S. While I agree that precise measurement of your intake is not needed, it is always good to have a period of measurement, and then to do occasional periods of food tracking and measurement to calibrate your understanding of food portions. It's less stressful to be able to eyeball food portions and estimate macro numbers (especially when eating out), than to always be trying to figure out or log your macros on MyFitnessPal.
I went with the meal prep route. My partner and I have just started getting a weekly delivery of pre cooked meals. It's not an athlete one, but the food so far is good enough. Some are a bit low in protein, but I will bump that up with veg on the sides.
I have always been able to get away eating crap and even though these aren't perfect macro balanced, they have good quality ingredients and minimal processing. It works great with my shift work and the challenges of eating that brings.
The keyword is homemade food. This is how human race survived for all these centuries. Make it fun, make it enjoyable, get good at that. There is a lot more in that approach: It's a culture and way of living. I can bet you anything that you won't need anything else. Cook you fries if you want it badly. It will come out much much much better and healthier than any shit you can buy.
Now.. craving and being hungry are two different animals. Cravings is a sign that you are lacking some micro-elements and you need to address that. Run your blood test and analyze that. Try this one: https://cronometer.com. You can plug in your daily food and it breaks it down to the micro.
Well.. assuming you are sane and you have common sense of nutrition.
BTW, there is something wrong with the particular deathbed. I don't want be brainwashed that much. It is simply stupid.
