Ageless Athlete Discussion Thread

[GlassCityMedic]

Just finished the book-simply outstanding. Most of the concepts could be applied to younger people battling chronic injury/breakdown as well (not just the over 40 crowd). I see so many people around my line of work who were rock star athletes in their teens and 20's but can't manage to develop some sort of a sustainable template and prevent injury. These people are fat and broken by the time they are 30 and it gets worse from their. J-Madd's templates are extremely helpful in conquering these issues in my opinion.

[J-Madd]

Just finished the book-simply outstanding. Most of the concepts could be applied to younger people battling chronic injury/breakdown as well (not just the over 40 crowd). I see so many people around my line of work who were rock star athletes in their teens and 20's but can't manage to develop some sort of a sustainable template and prevent injury. These people are fat and broken by the time they are 30 and it gets worse from their. J-Madd's templates are extremely helpful in conquering these issues in my opinion.

Thanks GCM!!!!

[GiGis Daddy]

Hey JMAdd,

Your new rings rang a bell, sorry terrible pun..

the question I have is when is it time to go to rings? I know that you cant do a muscleup until you can do a dip and pullup (multiple) so or could you just start with assisted of some type and progress that way.. Blackmetalbunny is wanting to punt me now I am sure. I think the problem is I have too many toys and want to use them ALL.. another example, you need to be good at regular pushups/pullups/dips where do rings exercises fall in.. I guess I need you to spoon feed me where in the template rings and regular exercises would fall,ie one day of HIC would be ring day? or two max strength days and one rings day?

[J-Madd]

Hey JMAdd,

Your new rings rang a bell, sorry terrible pun..

the question I have is when is it time to go to rings? I know that you cant do a muscleup until you can do a dip and pullup (multiple) so or could you just start with assisted of some type and progress that way.. Blackmetalbunny is wanting to punt me now I am sure. I think the problem is I have too many toys and want to use them ALL.. another example, you need to be good at regular pushups/pullups/dips where do rings exercises fall in.. I guess I need you to spoon feed me where in the template rings and regular exercises would fall,ie one day of HIC would be ring day? or two max strength days and one rings day?

I'm not really sure how I'm going to work in my rings, and I'm very new to this modality. You could use them as a main lift (weighted dips, weighted pull-ups, muscle-ups, etc.) in your cluster, or as an accessory. The latter might work nicely for Zulu.

In your case, however, I would just stay the course with the basic barbell movements. Down the road you might start playing with something like this, but for now I'd keep it very basic (and boring).

[GiGis Daddy]

Very good advise, isnt it ironic that you and KB show us what to do and how to do it and we want to go to the 5th level without passing the 2nd level??!!?? Smitty, Smitty,Smitty,.

I work through some ring pushups/dips/rows yesterday..I am glad no one filmed that workout.. probably looked like an ape on quaaludes.. aging myself, do they still make quaaludes??

[Corax]

Hi Jim,

Bought your book a couple of days ago and I'm really enjoying it so far! This isn't really a question about your book but I'm wondering since you've completed the S&S program. When you reached the sinister goal, how was your conditioning (aerobic & anaerobic) and strength? How was the carryover to your barbell lifts and regular TB conditioning (running, cycling, ...). What about muscle mass / fat loss? I just completed my second base building block and I have some experience with S&S. I think I might give it a run again in the future.

Thanks!

[J-Madd]

Hi Jim,

Bought your book a couple of days ago and I'm really enjoying it so far! This isn't really a question about your book but I'm wondering since you've completed the S&S program. When you reached the sinister goal, how was your conditioning (aerobic & anaerobic) and strength? How was the carryover to your barbell lifts and regular TB conditioning (running, cycling, ...). What about muscle mass / fat loss? I just completed my second base building block and I have some experience with S&S. I think I might give it a run again in the future.

Thanks!

This is sort of a tough question. When I followed S&S, I did swings, TGU, and pull-ups first thing in the morning, and then I would run, swim, or cycle three or four days each week in the evening (LSS and some occasional sprinting, especially hill sprints). So, I was basically doing a base build with S&S as the strength component. That being said, I came out of that period with all of my fitness markers in good order. My aerobic/anaerobic markers were great and my strength levels were decent (I maintained). Muscle mass/body fat were about the same as usual.

I love S&S, no doubt. That being said, I just don't buy into it as a completely stand-alone program. If you want to get very good at swings and TGU, then certainly it's enough. If you want across the board fitness, however, I think you need more than just swings and TGU. Notice that a lot of the people that Pavel uses as examples of getting a lot out of a minimalist program built around the swing/TGU are operators or fighters, who are certainly doing a lot of other training. The beauty with S&S, however, is that you can couple it with almost anything, because it's so minimal. S&S is a great when you are time crunched (I used ETK, similar to S&S, the year our twins were babies to very good effect), or if your training schedule is otherwise demanding (you're doing a base build, training BJJ/MMA a lot, etc.).

By the way, I have been playing around with doing two-hand swings with The Beast x 50 (continuous)/day lately. It's a nice low-dose, high effect strength session that leaves me completely fresh to train BJJ or ride my bike later in the day. I don't think it's a great way to get strong in the first place, but I do think it's a good way to maintain strength while your are working on something else as your main focus.

[DocOctagon]

I love S&S, no doubt. That being said, I just don't buy into it as a completely stand-alone program. If you want to get very good at swings and TGU, then certainly it's enough. If you want across the board fitness, however, I think you need more than just swings and TGU.

Well said, I agree 100%.

[GlassCityMedic]

S&S is basically a rework of the the Program Minimum in ETK. It is exactly that-a bare bones program. In my opinion, it's great for people being introduced to kettlebells or rehabilitating some injuries but I don't don't believe it has enough to really give you great all around conditioning. If you want to do one of Pavel's programs, IMO the ROP will give you more volume, strength and probably better conditioning. Before I found the gospel of TB, I did ROP for a year with pull ups in the pressing ladders. I also did deadlifts twice a week like he describes in the back of the book and added 100 m runs interspersed with my medium and heavy swing days (kind of like a meat eater before I knew about meat eater). I found this was a pretty good program and contained more pulling that found just in S&S. But it does beg the question: if you have barbells, a pull up bar and kettlebells, why not just do Operator + Black with KB swings/Farmer Carry and probably get better results?

[TangoZero]

S&S is basically a rework of the the Program Minimum in ETK. It is exactly that-a bare bones program. In my opinion, it's great for people being introduced to kettlebells or rehabilitating some injuries but I don't don't believe it has enough to really give you great all around conditioning. If you want to do one of Pavel's programs, IMO the ROP will give you more volume, strength and probably better conditioning. Before I found the gospel of TB, I did ROP for a year with pull ups in the pressing ladders. I also did deadlifts twice a week like he describes in the back of the book and added 100 m runs interspersed with my medium and heavy swing days (kind of like a meat eater before I knew about meat eater). I found this was a pretty good program and contained more pulling that found just in S&S. But it does beg the question: if you have barbells, a pull up bar and kettlebells, why not just do Operator + Black with KB swings/Farmer Carry and probably get better results?

This is the conclusion I came to as well. A good bare bones program to keep the general population active, but limited in what it can do for you as a serious trainee. In my opinion ETK is the superior program.

Just wanted to add my thumbs-up for Ageless Athlete, awesome book, review is up on Amazon. I'm not in the Ageless category yet but I've been implementing the programming for the accessory work and I'll be using the AA Base Building template next year. I highly recommend reading it even if you're not in your 50s or whatever.